This message, outlining the limitations of the Moi3d meshes for character modeling is precisely what I need to know.... and how to fix my work. Thanks for pointing this out, and mentioning topogun. After a wee of hair pulling and trying to "fix" the character model I painstakingly developed to find it its mesh ready for rigging in Poser, Daz or Messaiah. I tried with very little improvement retopo via 3DCoat (might as well start from scratch, but most promising), Wings3d (wont handle dense meshes) MeshLab (mesh mush), Blacksmith 3d (half baked), and Blender. Blender seemed the most capable app, however its interface proved too daunting for the intricate retopo object surgery needed.

On to TopoGun. - Ill report. Shame learning about the MoI mesh limitations with so much time invested. This significantly limits MoI3d for me. Why use a character head (easter island Moi face) as a logo, as I wrongly assumed that the MOI3d products appeals specifically _was_ for character modeling.

"The limitations of MOI meshes" is not a correct phrase. The limitations are limitations of the polygon modelling format. Poly modelling doesn't have the real world curves that exist in NURBS. This forces the MOI mesher to compensate by approximating with lots of straight line segments. That is why the meshes are dense. Any nurbs program will have to do the same thing. If you were definitely going for a poly format then why not start out with a program that gives you direct control over the vertices, edges and faces? If you are worried about mesh density and topology then NURBS is probably not the form of modelling you should be using. I don't see that MOI has claimed to be anything other than a good NURBS modeller, which I believe it is quite successful at being. You are not going to get good mesh topology designing with curves. It just won't work. Try subdivision surface modelling to get sort of close. You are definitely going to have to go to a poly modelling program to get it changed into a form suitable for character modelling though. On the other hand if you are trying to create a real world type object then NURBS is pretty much the only thing that will do. Poly modelling is for objects that can be made to "look" real. It's just two different types of modelling for different purposes.

You could still use MOI to make a model that you could use with a subD modeller, but that begs the question of why not start with the same program?

Also, don't you think it's an unfair assumption that because MOI's logo mascot is a rough Easter Island head that would make MOI a character modeller? GEICO is an insurance company with a lizard mascot. While I know the lizard is a gecko that still wouldn't make sense using your analogy.

...and Lacoste is a crocodile farm.

Hi Dream Cutter, yes MoI is not really a good choice for typical character modeling - character modeling is usually better done in a sub-d polygon modeling program where they have a variety of tools and focus on that particular kind of modeling. There is a somewhat higher learning curve there involved with learning how to manage topology and wrangle a lot of points though.

There is a lot of variety between different 3D modeling technologies, and different kinds of modeling tools have strengths for building different kinds of model shapes. There isn't really one single tool that is the best tool for just any kind of model, just like there isn't any one single tool in your workshop that is the best tool for every single kind of task that you need to do.

It helps if you use a tool that is more suited for your particular task at hand - for example in a workshop if you need to nail some stuff together you don't want to grab the saw to do that - use a hammer for that instead. The same kind of thing applies here as well - you're better off using the 3D modeling technique that is best suited for your particular needs.

Also see this other post for some additional explanation:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3628.176


> Why use a character head (easter island Moi face) as a logo,

It's a play on words - those easter island face statues are actually called "moai":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moai

MoI -> Moai


> as I wrongly assumed that the MOI3d products appeals
> specifically _was_ for character modeling.

Hmm, no that's not a correct assumption - that's the first time I can remember hearing someone making this particular connection between the logo and the style of modeling that MoI is focused on... Sorry for the confusion!

If you would have asked any question about it here in the forum I would have definitely explained to you that it was not the best suited tool for that kind of job.

- Michael

Depends on the charater... I think a few of us made the MoI logo in 3d with MoI... Clearly though, there were NO warts or wrinkles... :o

Hi Burr yeah if the character is simple enough and has a kind of cartoony style it can be possible. But that's kind of a special case.

But even simple characters often tend to still have a little bit of details in the nose and mouth area that doesn't quite look right if those things are kind of tacked on as separate objects, aside from Mr Potato Head-y stuff... It's pretty frequent that especially the nose is more sculpted and fully blended into the rest of the face.

Actually Sculptris (http://www.sculptris.com) is a pretty good tool for a lot of that kind of stuff - it's easier to learn that type of brush based sculpting than regular polygon modeling particularly with Sculptris.

- Michael

How could you be so cruel to Mr. Potatoe head??? lol

I've always fooled around with that nose thing... It is tuff... Probably about 1.6 minutes in sculptris.... :o