thanks. i think when rhino first started out it may have been using the kernel you are. but then they started with their own kernel. i don't really recall. but whatever the case, moi seems much better at the basics. rhino does have a few features that i thought would be useful. but i'm willing to give those up to stop having modelling problems every single time i use the program. with moi v4 you are adding most of the missing things i was looking for. i think the only other thing is the zebra plots. it would be nice to have the cg location and inertia matrix. but i can live without it. the main thing is being able to make a model without having to do 20 attempts to get something usable. even then, it seems moi on the first attempt is still better than the rhino result.