Hi Marco, I definitely agree that those are important features! However there are even more basic CAD things that MoI is still missing such as dimensions.

32-bit memory limits and the fragility of the Wineskin based Mac version were causing a lot of problems so those were even more basic things yet.

If you need to do complex hierarchical assemblies, MoI probably isn't the best suited tool for that area right now but there are many existing CAD programs that can do that type of work.

- Michael

Michael, I understand your point of view and all your efforts.
I do the same job as you (software developing) :)

@You : "...If you need to do complex hierarchical assemblies..."

No Michael, I don't manage complex assembly.

But, actually, with both the current outliner and the absence of true "Parenting and Grouping", it's very hard to manage also very simple assembly.

But...anyway...I hope that one day you will put your hands also on these things.

Have a nice day ;)

You're right as i did not found more specific examples, but don't forget that if we need to go to poly softwares (like 3dsmax), it is mostly for rendering and more of that for animation... and for light polysets.

- Polygons are easy to manipulate, deform (for animation for ex.), and a light polymesh with OpenSubdiv / Turbosmooth is very fast and usefull when you need lowpoly for VR / RT outputs.
- Exported polys from Nurbs softwares are eavy in polygons count, and sometimes with ugly triangles around chamfers, booleans etc.
> Moi3D has a better polygon exporter (quads), but as you know for sure, each surface is treated separatelly, so the vertices from sides (of a cube for ex) and those from the chamfer are not the same, so they can't be welded for further treatment (deformation, smoothing, nice UV unfolding...)
- Whenever i don't need to deform, UVmap, lowPoly... or when i'm sure that having lots of polys is not an issue for the project, i can use the Moi3D obj exporter.
- I'm done trying to open Nurbs within 3dsmax : it can handle it, but soooo poorly, slow and not really usable, i prefer getting polys.

3dsmax (and Maya and others) can do booleans, and chamfers... But not really both of them on the same mesh, as polygons booleans are almost always very poor in meshing (long flat triangles, non-aligned / non-weldable vertices...

That are the reasons why i'd love to get a clever Nurbs to Polygons exporter, that would know about chamfers from Nurbs and that would create a OpenSubdiv-ready polymesh.

If interested, i could model some examples with both nurbs and polys to show what does not work and what should.

Regards

@Michael:However there are even more basic CAD things that MoI is still missing such as dimensions

...back and forth from Moi to Fusion...We need it ! :)

M

If you'd ask me for a new MoI functionality top 5, in order of importance to me personally, I'd say:

1: More robust fillets, capable of handling any complex set of edges.

2: Optimized high-res polygon mesh to NURBS conversion, resulting in as few patches as possible.

3: Fully quadrangular meshing as an export option, similar to ZBrush ZRemesher / 3D-Coat Autopo, with a smooth edge loop structure that follows the flow of a solid, ready for subdivision.

4: An improved History system that remains intact longer, or maybe even better: a modular modifier system like in 3ds Max. For example: a Fillet modifier that non-destructively auto-adds fillets to any sharp edges in a model, and can be adjusted at any time.

5: More flexible solid editing options, such as the ability to manipulate edges and surfaces of solids more or less like polygonal control and/or using adjustable FFD/Lattice cages for object deformation.

I second all Metin said !!

All what Metin Seven said! I think it is very important.
I want to clarify that i am constantly annoying about basically all he mentioned especially for point 1 and 5....this is not because i want that features in Moi3d and i am not biased because of it but because it is a major opportunity features that will most certainly bring in a lot more people to buy Moi3D....the same will not happen with dimensions, grouping or instancing features which will be considering as welcomed but not as selling ones, as far as i know(i hope i am wrong). If more people are buying Moi3d perhpas you can even hire someone eventually to help you on other certain features.
Moi3d greatest is in user friendliness but still very cabable combined with ability to add custom shortcuts as well as custom scripts (to shortcuts as well)...the only thing missing is robustness of those same features.


The only thing i would add on Metin list is:
6. Refresh UI design - i am not suggesting changes to how things work but only to have nice looking default UI with all new icons, etc. If possible to bring in some customization tools (like expand the SideBar tabs or choose between dark gray or light gray ui, etc) would be a plus but just nice looking default UI would go very far. While i know you can change that yourself, there is a ton of discussion around it already too and i did changed UI and make new icons for myself...i still think this should be done because the information to do it yourself is really overwhelming.

Best,
Klaudio

Hi klaudio,

re:
> this is not because i want that features in Moi3d and i am not biased because of it but
> because it is a major opportunity features that will most certainly bring in a lot more
> people to buy Moi3D....

It's not really a goal for MoI to target the largest number of people possible.


> If more people are buying Moi3d perhpas you can even hire someone eventually to help
> you on other certain features.

It is a goal though to not do this - I don't want to hire someone else.

It's also another overall goal to keep MoI simple and easy to use and to not become bloated and complex as is easy to happen when just adding in lots and lots of assorted features. So because of this I like to take a slow and steady approach.


> 6. Refresh UI design - i am not suggesting changes to how things work but only to have
> nice looking default UI with all new icons, etc.

This has already been done for V4 - the icons for stuff like "File" and "Save" have already been updated.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

thanks for confirming the Linux/nvidia related selection issue. If there's anything I can do in order to assist finding a solution, please let me know.

best regards

Bernhard

Hi Michael
I notice that the feature request list has been pretty active recently.
I would like to say again that dimensions and line types remain the most important things for me in Ver 4.
Thanks for your great work to date and please don't 'bloat' MoI.
cheers,
eric

"It's also another overall goal to keep MoI simple and easy to use and to not become bloated and complex as is easy to happen when just adding in lots and lots of assorted features. So because of this I like to take a slow and steady approach."
That's exactly why we choose MoI.
Please, Michael, don't make it a bloated and complex application.
Thanks for that.

Hello Michael and everyone!

Just my two cents about improving Moi...

I think that simply adding new important missing features doesn't mean 'bloating' MoI.

At its current "age" and "ripeness", Moi DESERVES new powerful features that cannot be always killed because we want "a clean" UI.

I'm confident that Michael has the full ability to pump-up Moi while keeping it clean and easy.

My two cents...


Have a nice day.

Hi Marco,

> I think that simply adding new important missing features doesn't mean 'bloating' MoI.

Well that's exactly how bloat occurs - nobody intends to "add bloat", they intend to add new important missing features. Bloat is a side effect of that.

It doesn't mean that I'm not going to ever add new features, but it does mean that I tend to wait to add them until there is a good plan in mind for where they fit in the UI without making it too complex.

Priority tends to go to things that improve the basics.

- Michael

Ciao Michael!

@You : "...It doesn't mean that I'm not going to ever add new features, but it does mean that I tend to wait to add them until there is a good plan in mind for where they fit in the UI without making it too complex..."

Perfect! I agree.
As I said, I know that you have the fully ability to improve Moi and keep it clean and easy.

But maybe, please kindly let me simply express my opinion without any judgment, maybe I think that you're only a "little bit" too "hesitant" in adding these new features :)

But, this is only my very personal opinion, that's not changing in any way my great appreciation about Moi and your job!

Ciao!

I have mentioned to add "robustness" to the tools and features...and this by all means doesn't mean to bloat Moi with features, as i said, one of the greatest things about Moi is in its simplicity.... If anyone needs anything complex you can always to to Rhino, Alias, Solidworks, etc..

By robustness of the features i mean on, for example, Moi has Fillet simple as that no need to change how you work with it but only now to make it work on complex surfaces and not be bothered with edges too much, or that you can fillet multiple points on separate curves at the same time. You have the ability to select faces and edges, why not now to be able to move them around freely. Shell command i often find to be "sensitive" it works on simple thing beautifully but on more complex things it tends to fail...etc. Like this I think there can be added lots to Moi functionally in that way without adding a single new icon or anything to UI and with that not to "bloat" Moi3D.

The main thing about Moi3d is, and even front page says that, "3D modeling for designer and artists", which is absolutely true even as Moi3d works now. The thing i have noticed is that the lack of previous mentioned "robustness" of the features makes you often to fall back on convoluted workflows to solve problems which then defeats the purpose of being artist friendly. In software like Fusion360 (and lots of others) i can see people adding fillets like it's nothing crossing edges and on complex surfaces in a second which allow you to design freely, while the same thing in Moi3D simple edge gets in a way and you are done and you compromise instead for a good enough solution or if you have a bit experience spend 10-15min trimming, rebuilding, blending the fillet manually.


Don't get me wrong here, as Marco said, i am not here judging and pointing finger, i am just giving a feedback on Moi3d based on last few years i've been using it. I love it otherwise i would switch to others long time ago and that is exactly why i am saying all this...just wishing all the best and to be sure we can use Moi in the distant future too! Please don't be to hesitant to add few features to make Moi3d even more pleasant to work with. 10-15 new features is nothing, people learn and adapt and then they will most likely wonder eventually how they even worked before without the same features. It is not like you will add 200 new features suddenly.


Last thing on this "bloating Moi" topic, to have in mind. I find it interesting, as far as i can see, people have absolutely no problem with adding, using and setting even dozens of custom scripts as shortcuts or adding them in custom UI and using all wonderful scripts of Max Smirnov and others, etc...yet suddenly adding essential functionally to the core of Moi3d is seen as bloating it with features. Just something to think about.


Sorry for the long post. ;) That's it from me on this topic.

Best,
Klaudio

Hi Klaudio, yes I definitely agree that both filleting and shelling are the weakest areas of MoI currently. They are also unfortunately extremely difficult to implement, to do a good job on them isn't just a bug fix it's more about classifying and handling lots of different special cases. Probably the main way forward to improving these will involve licensing an additional geometry library that has had more time invested in these areas. That's something that I've tried to do twice already but without success for various reasons out of my own control. I will likely attempt it again in v5. I do consider it a very desirable target area to improve in MoI but it's just not likely to happen in v4.

> I find it interesting, as far as i can see, people have absolutely no problem with adding,
> using and setting even dozens of custom scripts as shortcuts or adding them in custom
> UI and using all wonderful scripts of Max Smirnov and others, etc...yet suddenly adding
> essential functionally to the core of Moi3d is seen as bloating it with features. Just
> something to think about.

Well it's easy to get a skewed sense of this when you're only seeing feedback from experienced users. Users who don't have any prior experience in 3D or even limited experience with using the computer at all do not do all these customization things, they are the ones that are hit hardest by bloat.

That's another way that bloat happens naturally - long time users aren't affected by it as much (or at least build up a tolerance for it) and so don't complain about it but the brand new user is a much different case. They actually don't complain about it either, instead they just give up.

I am entering a period though where I'll be introducing more new features than I have for a while - the last couple of years have been dominated by a major rewrite to get to 64-bit and a Mac native version and then stabilizing that. It ended up taking a lot more time than I had thought it would but it's a much better foundation for going forward.

I do want MoI to be useful for many types of users, not just beginning users. But the beginning users are the ones that have the most to lose since they have the fewest options.

- Michael

To my opinion one thing that is needed urgently -I have said it in another thread too- is a deforming by cage! It is a very needed feature. It is really a problem to go back and forth by exporting importing an object for being able to deform it in another app.

As to other needed features I do double the thoughts of Metin. Having a good quad (or even hybrid) mesher for obj export would be great. The present exporter is good but if you want to send the object for sculpting there arise a lot of problems: especially the fact that there is a so dense accumulation of polygons on the fillet areas makes the remeshing in other apps difficult. It would be great, indeed, to have an alternative way of exporting the models by shaping on them a more suitable for sculpting mesh.

And... a simple, nice scroll where the user could insert, with icons of his own design, the add-on scripts please... most of the add-ons are very useful and it is difficult to remember them by keyboard shortcuts only.

Hi Dimitri, I think Max's CustomUI extension has a scripts menu. If you set that up you wouldn't need to remember keyboard shortcuts to access scripts.

For sculpting which program are you using, have you tried 3D Coat's voxel sculpting mode? As far as I know it is not sensitive to polygon density since polygons are converted into voxels and then you sculpt with the voxels.

- Michael

Hi Michael! I know Max's script but I would prefer to have such a thing natively built in Moi. But anyway, ok, Max's script too may do the work! : - )

Now, as to the 3D Coat... I do use it but I do have to make more experiments with it. Just yesterday made a retopo with it to a base ring model got from Moi (below is the rendered result in Blender's Cycle). It did not occur to me trying directly to work on it in voxel mode. Will try it. Thanks for mentioning it!

Btw, keep in mind please the cage deformer thing... Moi could be great for ring designers! : - )

Hello Michael,

I am trying the new MoI 3D version. That's really great. Especially when I saw the possibility of the new OpenGL option. I tested it right away. So I put GraphicsAPI=OpenGL in the moi.ini file.

And, there, it's great, navigation with a 3D mouse is really faster on large files.

However, I have the same problem as Bernhard.
I can no longer select anything; neither curves, nor objects, nor surfaces.

For information, I work with Windows 10 Pro V1803.
One Gigabyte GTX960 4GB graphics card, one Wacom Intuos 3 tablet and one Xeon X5472 CPU

Daniel