Shelling troubles...
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 From:  tyglik
489.15 
Hi Michael and Jesse,

Well, I am accustomed to having quite austere interface in Rhino and using aliases solely, but in MoI I have got used to calling commands by the big-big buttons and it seems very natural to me. ( I'd still be interested to get a way of defining more than one-letter shortcuts, though. )

I guess the size of button is the reason for natural workflow with UI since I can start moving a mouse cursor exactly towards the particular button/tab and click it with only cursory glance at the side pane. On the other hand, I have adapted Help menu for me by adding new command/script items like ScaleArray and so forth. But it appears to be too clumsy and I often chase after specific item for a while before picking the one. So menu ( without big-big icons :) is somehow uncomfortable to me...


I think the command palette - with proper header name - which would be collapsed on default and would collapse itself after clicking on a button inside it, could be reasonable for less commonly used commands. If there wasn't space enough in the side pane, other palletes would collapse/expand appropriatelly so layout of the side pane would look identically before/after using those commands.


Btw, from my point of view the File menu come under a group of less commonly used commands, but there is a list of recently used files so I guess it would be difficult to handle it in a different manner...

Petr
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 From:  Michael Gibson
489.16 In reply to 489.15 
Hi Petr,

> I guess the size of button is the reason for natural workflow with UI since I
> can start moving a mouse cursor exactly towards the particular button/tab
> and click it with only cursory glance at the side pane.

Yup, the big button size is a key factor. They're not just big to make them easier to look at for beginners, but also for everyone, experts and beginners alike, to be able to more quickly utilize them.

This is described by Fitts' law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts'_law

Originally I made those buttons big to help make it easier to click on them with a pen tablet, which is sort of a bit more shaky than a mouse since it is harder to hold perfectly still. But this is one of those areas where tuning something for better targeting with the tablet also helps out for targeting with the mouse as well. I've been lucky that pretty much all of the tablet-oriented design stuff has turned out to be mouse beneficial as well.

Teeny tiny buttons in UI is kind of a pet peeve of mine. Especially on some laptops that have high density screens, it is amazing how tiny many buttons on other applications are.


> I think the command palette - with proper header name - which would be collapsed
> on default and would collapse itself after clicking on a button inside it, could be
> reasonable for less commonly used commands.

That's definitely the plan for the future addition of entire groups of new functionality. Like dimensions and annotations will have a "Dim" palette that is collapsed by default.

But there is still a problem that stuff that is added to a palette has to be in some kind of a group that contains more than one thing in it. If there are a bunch of palettes that only have one or two things in it, then the palette headers aren't providing any real savings over having the buttons somewhere up at the top level.

Sometimes the biggest difficulty is finding a good grouping for stuff - for example ShrinkTrimmedSrf is difficult to place right now.


> If there wasn't space enough in the side pane, other palletes would
> collapse/expand appropriatelly so layout of the side pane would look
> identically before/after using those commands.

The collapsing part of this is implemented right now - you can see this if you shrink the window down (BTW I just found and fixed a bug where the mouse cursor doesn't switch to a sizing cursor when you are on the edge of a non-maximized window. But it still will still size right now if you grab there anyway despite what the cursor looks like) so that there isn't as much vertical room. Now when you activate a palette, other ones will collapse to try and make space and prevent the scroll bar from appearing.


I had thought a few times about making File be a tab on the side pane instead of a pop-up menu type thing, but yes the recent file list on it makes it pretty natural to have as a pop-up menu. It also just seems somehow natural to have as a menu because of similarity to "old fashioned" UI systems that have a menu bar.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
489.17 In reply to 489.16 

Have you try to use Moi with a "vocal command" for call functions?
So no need to press button : just drawing on screen !
Maybe it's more speedy?
(I have never used but see it on some computers' show)

---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
489.18 In reply to 489.17 
I haven't tried it. I would probably get a sore throat from talking all day long...

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
489.19 In reply to 489.18 

> I would probably get a sore throat from talking all day long.
Maybe... but avoid a hand cramp !
Choice is difficult :D

---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  tyglik
489.20 In reply to 489.16 
Hi Michael,

>>This is described by Fitts' law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts'_law

:)

>>The collapsing part of this is implemented right now - you can see [...] when you activate
>>a palette, other ones will collapse to try and make space and prevent the scroll bar from appearing.

Surely, I knew about it. But other part of described palette handling after clicking on button lying in the palette "marked as rarely used" is important part as well. It was a crucial thought of my previous reasoning. Now, palette handling can be characterized as self-expanding/other-collapsing. What I meant it was to make a things upside down (for less commonly used tabs/buttons) - i.e. self-collapsing/other-expanding_to_previous_state to restore it.

I really hope the scroll bar never appears to me... hehe... It would imply there is something wrong with UI - too many commands, palletes or something like this...



...see http://www.3designjewel.com/flash/discover/parametric/parametric_court.html


Petr
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 From:  Michael Gibson
489.21 In reply to 489.20 
> I really hope the scroll bar never appears to me... hehe... It would imply
> there is something wrong with UI - too many commands, palletes or
> something like this...

Don't worry - having to use scroll bars to get to the UI is another big pet peeve of mine.

There are cases where they are necessary, but for MoI this should always be in cases where there is only very limited space available, like if you have shrunk down the window size or are working on a pretty low resolution screen.

I don't expect to use a scroll bar for typical basic UI access.

- Michael
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 From:  Schbeurd
489.22 In reply to 489.12 
>>Probably this object repair tutorial: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=446.17
Or also this: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=444.4


HI Michael,
Yes, it was the second message. Thanks for the links. I didn't notice the first one. Some useful information there too ! ;-)
And thanks for the additional explanations.
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