Hi Nick,

> I want and like the info right where the mouse is so
> I don't have to switch focus between the mouse and
> info center. I find that incredibly distracting.

The problem with that is that if you are just trying to draw something where you're focused just on its shape and not wanting to enter in any numeric coordinates, having all those coordinate boxes floating around by your mouse doesn't give you any benefit and instead they actually detract from being able to clearly see the object's shape on the screen.

I mean I don't see how you could not consider this to be distracting and getting in the way:



It's pretty easy for HUD "Heads Up Display" to become more like IYF "In Your Face" in this way - in MoI there is generally an emphasis on not getting into the IYF level of stuff. This helps make MoI more friendly for the kinds of uses where someone just wants to draw and not even type in any coordinates - the type in stuff is available if you need it but doesn't overwhelm the UI.

What's the point of having the "Specify next point" text floating around next to your mouse when you're drawing a curve like that, anyway? Surely there isn't any confusion that you are picking the next point in the curve...


The other thing is that kind of inputs floating around with the mouse mechanism is kind of limited to pretty simple input types because trying to put something like 5 or 6 controls floating around there would make it really bad - so it can't quite "scale up" very naturally for situations where additional options or inputs could be useful...


I can see how you could like it if you are more often drawing lines and arcs by entering in numeric input though. But to me that comes with some pretty negative side effects for the "just drawing and looking at shape" type workflow, and it just doesn't make very much sense when you're drawing freeform curves.

- Michael

"I can see how you could like it if you are more often drawing lines and arcs by entering in numeric input though."

That's exactly why I like it. I am more of mechanical guy and not very artsy with free-flowing stuff. <shrug> Really abstract things start to make my head spin. :-)

Hi Nick, so I guess the thing is that mechanical lines 'n arcs type stuff is already handled so well by MCAD programs (SolidWorks, SolidEdge, Alibre, etc...) that it just didn't make sense to me to make MoI to be in exactly the same mold as those so to speak...

MoI is trying to be more of a hybrid between CAD and 2D illustration sorta.

- Michael

The free deformation of a side line volume and direct fillets is some astonished.

Yeah I like the handle you can grab for doing fillets.

I really like the gizmo for adding draft while doing extrudes and the hole tool is pretty darn cool.

@Michael - ha, yeah I guess that makes sense. I Like MoI for really quick concepts that don't require the precision/changeability I get with Alibre plus it's fun :-)

I've tried this for some hours.
I think that 123D is not so intuitive compare to MOI, but it has somewhat good features like 'Edit edge'
Anyway it's very interesting to use a new application. :-)

http://forum.123dapp.com/123d/topics/engine_render from Support 123D !
[quote]on of the next releases will include a photo realistic real time renderer using HDRi. [/quote]
by Thomas Heermann Product Manager ADSK

Tried importing simple STEP and SAT files into 123D. Crashed each time.

I've already uninstalled it.

I'll stick with MoI and ViaCAD.

Michael T.

""""""""" I Like MoI for really quick concepts that don't require the precision/changeability""""""""""

Changeability would fit here as Alibre has parametric capabilities, But Precision??? MoI makes precise models easily without compromise... I dont think precision is an issue..

"MoI makes precise models easily without compromise... I dont think precision is an issue.."


Let me just point you here:

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI

Hey Nick,
Your link only points to the root forum??? Maybe check the link if you intended to post to something specific.

Hi Nick, to get a link to a specific message, right-click on the link that shows up in the upper-right corner of the message body, like the one here will say 4247.58 - if you right-click that link and do "copy link location" that will get you a link to bring up that message thread starting at that message number.

If you just grab the address from the main address bar that won't work because of how the forum works as a frameset - it's kind of a collection of a few different sub frames.

- Michael

:-| Well, don't I look stupid now.

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4215.2

SO you point to a thread where Michael states that someones operation in a model looks like a bug??

Then he gives some explanation of how to get MoI's geometry library to succeed the apparent bug by doing some scaling on the model to complete the operation, then continue on...

The discussion of the internal tolerance settings of MoI is some insight to the process. Some of the commands that do iteration to complete using adaptive tolerances are creating less dense, unwanted heavy geometry.. But it does not mean that The created model is not accurate..

WHat you pointed to was a situation where the command on the model couldnt handle the request at hand due to some possible bug hitting some of the internal workings of MoI, with a solution provided...

This doesnt mean that your 5 inch line may be 4.99 inches long....

Hi Nick, well all NURBS modeling programs have a fitting tolerance that is used for operations that are calculated by a type of refining process, that's not something that's unique to MoI.

MoI generally targets an accuracy of 0.001 units, although I am working on converting to a more adaptable system that will use a fitting accuracy that is some fraction of the object's size which will help to make things work better on little sized objects.

But if you're looking for a system that does not use any kind of a fitting tolerance like that, you'll basically have to rule out every CAD system that's currently in use, since that's just a normal part of how a CAD system operates...

Some CAD systems allow you to specifically set the tolerance to a particular value - unfortunately that often times has a lot of negative side effects, including actually it getting set too loose and making things too inaccurate instead.

But yes, if you have some special need to have manual control over the fitting tolerance you may need to use some kind of special purpose CAD software that has all kinds of intricate settings like that which you may need to attend special training to figure out how to use, lest you set them incorrectly and actually mess things up...

Probably in the future at some point I'll add in a setting that will make MoI target a tolerance of 0.0001 units optionally instead.

Do you have some kind of manufacturing process where you would find a tolerance of 0.0001 units to be inadequate?

One thing to keep in mind is that it is not at all true that more tolerance is automatically better - a tighter fitting tolerance causes iterative algorithms to refine their results more and more, basically causing longer calculation times and also a much larger file size because things like intersection curves will have a zillion control points in them. So just setting the tolerance to some extremely small value is not really a good thing to do, that's something that I've seen as a pretty frequent problem in systems that allow people to set the fitting tolerance to any value at all.

- Michael

And yes that fitting tolerance accuracy only comes into play during particular kinds of calculations that use a kind of refinement process to create their result, like Surface/Surface intersection is one of the main ones.

But for things like entering in coordinates where you're drawing lines and arcs the fitting tolerance does not apply to anything in that case.


So I mean yes definitely the changeability aspect of the constraint systems that MCAD programs offer is definitely useful for editing.

But you should be aware that a fitting tolerance is used in all other NURBS based CAD programs as well - that's not something that's just unique to MoI. If you've assumed that only MoI uses a fitting tolerance and other CAD programs just magically use infinite precision on all operations, that's not correct at all...

- Michael

Solidworks has a rather neat way of dealing with this (if you understand tolerance, that is). If the requested feature or operation cannot be done withing the default tolerance, a dialogue appears showing the minimum tolerance necessary to complete. If you want you can accept the looser tolerance or you can cancel and go back over the model features and find out what caused it.

Maybe this is what Steve refer to : http://help.solidworks.com/2011/English/SolidWorks/sldworks/AllContent/SolidWorks/Core/Surfaces/t_knit_gaps_viewing_selecting_gaps.htm

"""""""""If you want you can accept the looser tolerance or you can cancel and go back over the model features and find out what caused it."""""""""""

Ah yes Steve, and this is the kicker... I have a CAM package that will allow me to set the system tolerance to "15 decimals!!!" If you ask 100 of it's users if it is a good modeler (Capable of making quality solids and surfaces), 96 would say "NO".

Like the abilty to plot the coords for the placement of the b-spline points for the exact curvature of a surface needed at a .0001 tolerance (Instead of having the system do it for you) or recieve poor results...