Hi rodney, so the Rebuild command that Burr is mentioning is a new command for MoI v2 but you have to set it up on a keyboard shortcut to run it, it doesn't have an icon set up for it currently in the regular UI.

Rebuild will reconstruct a curve kind of like drawing a new curve that has a bunch of its points snapped on to the existing one.

It is another way to help simplify a curve because it will try to form just one segment out of a curve that is made up of many smaller fragments (if they are close enough to being smooth to one another).

If you look at your intersection curve that you used for making the circular tube, if you run Edit > Separate on it, you'll see that it is made up of several individual segments that are joined together, they are separated by every spot where the intersection crossed the seam edge of the closed bottle surface.

So when you sweep along a multi-segmented curve, you will generate segmented surfaces as well, with one surface piece for each segment instead of just one long surface.

By doing a Rebuild on the rail for the tube, it makes it into a more simple curve made up of just one long smooth segment so that helps to make just one surface when you sweep it, and that makes for fewer edges and pieces in the thing you want to fillet.


In the future I'll probably try to do something like an automatic Rebuild on the output from surface/surface intersection (and possibly projection too), once I am really convinced that there won't be any cases where the Rebuild would make things worse...

- Michael

Here you can see how the Rebuild step helps.

The original surface/surface intersection curve has a control point structure that looks like this:



It tends to be fairly dense with control points, and worse yet it made a kind of nasty little extra segment where it crossed the seam, that little extra segment is probably the biggest problem.

Now look at what the curve control points look like after running Rebuild with a tolerance of 0.01 units:



It's basically redrawn that curve but with a much more even control point spacing also unifying those little nasty segment parts. So it's actually a much cleaner curve for using for the next step.


- Michael

Hi rodney, also I've attached here a version that has the tube created but before the boolean is done so you can see what that looks like.

The main difference from your previous posted one, is that the tube path has had Rebuild run on it (you can also type in the command name to run Rebuild, to do that type Tab first to put focus in the mini command prompt area, then type Rebuild and push Enter).

Also while making the tube I rotated the circle and use Twist = Flat so that the seam edge on the tube was all on the outside of the area it will cut so that helps to reduce the number of edges running into each other in the final result.

So in the attached model select the main bottle body, then run Boolean Difference, then pick the tube as the cutting object.

Then you can select the edges (or the whole bottle if you want to do all edges including the top one though) and run Fillet. You'll be limited to a radius of not much more than 0.1 or so. That's due to yet another problem area for Fillet which is trying to fillet a fillet into a small area that has a tight bend in it like here:



Filleting tries to keep things at a constant distance away from the edges, so when things go around tight curves it can tend to cause a bunching problem, kind of like this exaggerated example:



- Michael

There are some things that I want to adjust in the future which probably would have helped you out quite a bit in this case.

I'll probably do the equivalent of Rebuild automatically on the curves generated from intersections, projections, and offsets, and also probably try to adjust how sweep generates its output surfaces, trying to make some longer surfaces in cases like this instead of necessarily making one individual surface per segment (although sometimes that can be useful to be able to separate something that is more like a pipe with joints so it is a somewhat tricky area to mess with).

- Michael

you are unbelievable guys. I had already given up on this project and was ready to tell the client I couldn't do it and I look back here and find all these extra gems. Thanks for posting the file Michael and to both of you for pointing out the rebuild command. that is an awesome tool and is exactly what I was looking for to optimize the number of points that get generated. How many more of these gems are hidden under the surface Michael? is there a post on the forum that lists all the extra functions that can only be fired from the command prompt?

here's a final file to show the fruit of all of your help. A huge thanks to you all. I learned so much on this one.

Hi Rodney, I'm glad you were able to get it finished. Thanks very much Burr & Danny for the additional help!

> is there a post on the forum that lists all the extra
> functions that can only be fired from the command
> prompt?

They're listed in the v2 command reference, which is very nearly ready.

They're basically things that I haven't found a good spot for yet in the UI, but I'm going to try and give them a spot in v3 hopefully.

This is the list:

Incremental save
Rebuild
Flip
Merge
ArrayGem
ExplodeMove
BoundingBox
BoundingBoxCenter
ShrinkTrimmedSrf

- Michael

The final product looks great rodney! I'm happy that you stuck with it.

The forum is a great resource, I've been here a while and I haven't seen one question or problem go unanswered, not only Michael, having the fastest draw in the west in answering questions there is a vast range of users with different fields of expertise, we have jewelers, engineers, tradesmen, artists, CGI experts, Industrial designers, architects and maybe the occasional extraterrestrial :) ranging from ages 4 to late 70's and I haven't heard of a software company that suggests to use other software to solve a particular problem until I joined MoI.

So we're all here to help because we all have one interest in common and that is modeling and MoI and I think we love the challenge of solving problems.

Cheers

Michael,

>>>>>I'll probably do the equivalent of Rebuild automatically on the curves generated from intersections, projections, and offsets, and also probably try to adjust how sweep generates its output surfaces, trying to make some longer surfaces in cases like this instead of necessarily making one individual surface per segment (although sometimes that can be useful to be able to separate something that is more like a pipe with joints so it is a somewhat tricky area to mess with).>>>>>>>

I just thought about this a bit. You make a great point. "Sometimes you want it to be seperate segments". This is very true with material assigments and such. Having it do the "rebuild automatically", I wanted to then ask for an option to disable that. But then I am looking for UI changes. I think it is already handled with a knowledge that "Rebuild exists...And run it if you want the different outcome." You did already add the multiple options to Rebuild, so you could get the same results as "RebuildCurve", which for me specifically covered all the bases. I'm envisioning not wanting to lose the power of the available options with the 2 different methods. Perhaps as the documentation matures, it will handle the methodology part for these situations...

Thanks

Hi Burr, yeah it is a bit of a tricky balance - how much stuff to do automatically, how much to rely on people knowing to use other commands like Rebuild as in this case, how many different options to put in the UI, etc...

For sweep making separate segments, I've been thinking of maybe doing something like keeping something that has line and arc pieces as separate segments but combining things that are just freeform curves together.

- Michael

I get it. So the helix, as a single freeform entity, would be treated as such. If you needed it to be segmented, you would create it that way. ( avoiding the segementation by the seam of the bottle....)

Hi Burr, yeah it's the sort of "unintended segmentation" that would be good to avoid.

- Michael

Hi BurrMan,

>rebuild command

Where is in MOI?

FiL

Hi FiL, some info on Rebuild here:
http://moi3d.com/2.0/docs/moi_command_reference10.htm#rebuild

- Michael

A command without button?

FiL

Hi FiL, yes that's correct there is not a button for it yet. I have not quite figured out the right spot to put it in the UI - that's one of the problems with making a nice uncluttered UI, it sometimes takes a long time to design it well.

One of the easiest ways that a program can lose its simplicity is just by adding in a whole ton of stuff so that there are a bazillion icons all over the place...


So for now you have to launch this command by setting up a keyboard shortcut or by typing in the command name.

In the future I do expect to figure out a good place to add it to the UI where it will have a button or be on a menu of some sort.

- Michael

HI Michael, ok. Thanks.

...You can put the buttom in a window or in a menu near the buttom of the coffee break or beer break... or lunch break like I need now :)
Thanks for your good work.
FiL

Hi Michael

I didn't know about the rebuild command either - are there any other gems hiding away? :)

Also, may I suggest a simple temporary fix for these commands that don't seem to fit anywhere neat, until you know where to put them?

Create a new Miscellaneous button, where all such commands can be placed if they don't fit anywhere else - otherwise people (like me lol) don't know about them, and they can be very useful :D

< are there any other gems hiding away?
Sure you must see with attention this page ;)
http://kyticka.webzdarma.cz/3d/moi/

And aespecialy ;)
http://kyticka.webzdarma.cz/3d/moi/doc/V2releasenotes.html#V2-out
rebuild function was inside :)

FIL,
Hit the Beer break button. I'm there with you!!! :o

Hi NightCabbage,

> I didn't know about the rebuild command either - are there
> any other gems hiding away? :)

Well, they're only hidden if you have not read the help file... :)

The ones that don't have buttons yet are listed in the "Additional commands" section of the help file here:
http://moi3d.com/2.0/docs/moi_command_reference10.htm#Additional%20commands


> Create a new Miscellaneous button, where all such
> commands can be placed if they don't fit anywhere
> else - otherwise people (like me lol) don't know about
> them, and they can be very useful

That may be similar to where they actually end up going as the official non-temporary place.

But in general I try to avoid making some kind of UI with a lot of stuff in it without carefully thinking it through.

What tends to happen is that "temporary" UI ends up getting kind of entrenched and essentially becomes the final version even though it was never carefully designed in the first place.

- Michael