Any of you use MoI as complement for Revit ?
I have client working mainly on Revit. They want to ensure that MoI will be suitable as complement for Revit.

Thank You !

Hi Anis, some previous threads about Revit:

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3145.1
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3101.1

MoI can be used as a complement to Revit, but you need to use MoI v2 for that because you need the SAT format export to move data from MoI into Revit.

The main reason why I added SAT format into v2 was actually to support Revit.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the links.
Is there any specific shape or model that Revit can not achieve, and MoI can do it ?
Is Revit base on polygon or NURBS ?

I want to know key point why we have to use MoI first then import to Revit ?

Hi Anis, I have not actually spent much time using Revit myself so you will probably want to get some more information from an actual Revit user. I can only give you a kind of general impression.

> Is there any specific shape or model that Revit can not
> achieve, and MoI can do it ?

From what I have seen, I think that Revit is itself more focused on assembling components together, like building walls, inserting windows, stuff like that. But I don't think it has very much for creating more general freeform surfaces, things like you would create with MoI's Sweep or Network surface tools for example.

If your project is made up of standard type shapes then you'll probably be set with Revit's built in tools, but if you want something that is more freeform then that's probably the areas where you could do it in MoI and then import it into Revit.

- Michael

Hi Anis,

> Is Revit base on polygon or NURBS ?

I believe it is actually NURBS based since it is able to import NURBS surface data and does not appear to just permanently change it into a bunch of polygons.

But it does not have a focus of general purpose NURBS surface construction tools like you would find in MoI or Rhino for example.

- Michael

Hi Anis ...

I don't have any revit experience but I did use AutoCad for many years, along with a bunch of plugins to improve it for architecture. They all seemed too regimented for my preferences. I originally bought Rhino to allow for some freedom in modeling and eventually gave up AutoCad as my primary tool for 3D and 2D as well.
MoI is like a streamlined Rhino. Lighter, faster and more intuitive. I now use it for most of my initial modeling but it does not have much to offer in 2D drafting. Perhaps it shouldn't as there are a lot of good drafting programs available at all levels of complexity. For my small architectural practice Rhino is fine for that purpose and works seamlessly with MoI.

From what I can see from here there is no single program that does it all.

cheers,
eric

I use moi models quite a bit in revit.
Most of the time if i'm taking a model into revit it is intended to be used as a starting point or conceptual mass to build actual revit walls, floors, roofs or curtain pannels from.
The reason is mainly because revit's conceptual modeling tools are really limited and currently not user friendly. It seems to be nurbs based as Michael noted but i consider it more of a 'solids' modeler.
Most designers tend to block out their forms quickly and easily in moi or rhino then export to revit as an .sat where you can quickly convert your surfaces into a revit family type. You can also use moi to create entourage and custom revit families which will otherwise be a nightmare to build in revit like furniture light fixtures etc(asuming you want good looking families default revit families usually look crappy from a visalization standpoint). Nurbs models work and look best in revit thus are prefered over mesh based models.

I use Revit Arch every day, very nice to hear that MoI can work with Revit... I find Revit's modeling tool 100% useless... I can't understand why a company like Autodesk that owns Max has to "re-invent the wheel" and make a totally new modeling technique in Revit...

Hi JTB,

> I can't understand why a company like Autodesk that owns
> Max has to "re-invent the wheel" and make a totally new
> modeling technique in Revit...

Well, Autodesk didn't actually make Revit originally - it was originally created by a completely different company called Revit Technology Corporation.

Autodesk then bought that company back in 2002...

- Michael

Yes, but they have done less development that you have done the past six months...except RAC2010 but the modeling tools are really strange... and not even close to max, inventor, rhino, moi3d, cinema4d etc..

Revit In terms of surface creation/manipulation looks pretty decent to me, considering is not pretending to be a surface modeler BUT a BIM system :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhz4uyXKsmQ&feature=related

http://designreform.net/2009/03/revit-2010-new-features-conceptual-mass-make-form-lofting/

http://designreform.net/2009/04/revit-2010-spline-by-points/

http://designreform.net/2008/04/revit-2009-sweep-blend/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3B6tz5C4o8&feature=player_embedded#

http://designreform.net/2009/04/revit-2010-revolve-and-new-surface-patterning-paneling/

http://designreform.net/2009/04/revit-2010-curtain-panel-pattern-based-hexagons/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4tK1gjgNt8&feature=related

Hi neo,

> Revit In terms of surface creation/manipulation looks pretty
> decent to me, <...>

Is that based just on watching those videos or have you actually tried to use those tools to model some stuff?

It definitely has a lot more modeling functions than what I remembered from previous versions, I think some of those are fairly new.

I just dug into it a bit more to give those a try, and they seem extremely frustrating to use - for example I can't figure out how to just draw a single freeform smooth closed curve... Can't see some really basic modeling things like trimming a curve to another curve, etc.. Maybe I have just missed how to do these since I am not familiar with the program, but from what I can see it still appears to be missing a lot of basic modeling stuff.

For example, it does not seem like it would be feasible to attempt any of the models from the MoI tutorials here: http://moi3d.com/1.0/docs/tutorials.htm

- Michael

Millions of people have some experience with polygon modeler, nurbs modeler and whatever else exists... Trust me, there is nothing like Revit modeling tools and the strange mental ray renderer inside revit.... it doesn't belong to any category...For example... There is no history...no subobject handling (at least a decent one) no UVs, no alpha channel or clipmaps no background image...
The other biggest problem is the lack of import/export options in Revit... I've said it before... They don't have a .obj import/export but they can read and write DGN !!!...(I think it's a Bentley format)... Also Revit to Max is not yet 100% error free...

****Btw, I can't import a SAT file from Moi, it sais I have to pass the file through AutoCAD !!! Then I understood I have to check the solid and no 2d geometry and it was ok but there is NOTHING I can do with it... How can I make it a Revit mass?
Some help here please...

Hi JTB,

> ****Btw, I can't import a SAT file from Moi, it sais I
> have to pass the file through AutoCAD !!!

That shouldn't be necessary - you can just export solids or surfaces from MoI into SAT format and then inside of Revit use Insert / Import CAD to bring in the SAT file.

But I don't think that you can bring in curve data this way, only surface or solid data. I don't know how you bring in curves from a different file format, there seems to be an Insert from File / Insert 2D Elements from file command, but it only seems to be able to open Revit file format.


> How can I make it a Revit mass?

I think maybe the way you do it is to first create a new mass (I guess "Massing & Site" and then "In-Place Mass") and then while you are still in that mass creation mode, at that point go to Insert / Import CAD and bring in the SAT file, that seems to make it part of the mass. Then hit Finish Mass and it seems to be set up I guess? I'm not very familiar with Revit so I'm not totally sure, but that appears to work.

Something like this:
http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Freeform-Roof-in-Revit

- Michael

Hi JTB, also another page with instructions for going from Rhino to Revit - same should apply for MoI v2 to Revit as well:

http://hokbimsolutions.blogspot.com/2007/07/revit-to-rhino-workflow.html

- Michael

Thank you both, very useful!

>>>Btw, I can't import a SAT file from Moi, it sais I have to pass the file through AutoCAD !!! Then I understood I have to check the solid and no 2d geometry and it was ok but there is NOTHING I can do with it... How can I make it a Revit mass?
Some help here please...

Perhaps some good news for a better compatibility between MoI and Autodesk products (?)

Autodesk acquires nPower SAT translator.
The nPower SAT translator will replace the original Autodesk® 3ds max® SAT translator as the standard SAT translation tool for Autodesk® 3ds max®. http://www.npowersoftware.com/AutodeskSAT.htm

Michael is MoI using the same SAT translator?

Hi neo,

> Michael is MoI using the same SAT translator?

Probably - as far as I know the nPower products use the HarmonyWare translators same as MoI. MoI uses the HarmonyWare translators for IGES, STEP, and SAT file I/O. The HarmonyWare translator libraries are packaged up specifically to coexist with the Solids++ kernel.

But I am not specifically familiar with the technical details or internals of the nPower products, you would need to ask the nPower / IntegrityWare guys to really find out for sure. (if they use HW libs for SAT in that particular product or not).


But also one other note - the message that you quoted asking about how to use the imported SAT data in Revit was not about a file incompatibility at all but just about what steps are needed within Revit to prepare any SAT import for use as one of their "mass" objects, rather than just a limited "symbol" type object. Just due to the way Revit's UI is set up you can't simply go directly to the import function, you have to create a new mass, _then_ import the data, and then it becomes the surface data for that mass. That's totally separate than file translation issues.

- Michael

>Probably - as far as I know the nPower products use the HarmonyWare translators same as MoI. MoI uses the HarmonyWare translators for IGES, STEP, and SAT file I/O. The HarmonyWare translator libraries are packaged up specifically to coexist with the Solids++ kernel.

But I am not specifically familiar with the technical details or internals of the nPower products, you would need to ask the nPower / IntegrityWare guys to really find out for sure. (if they use HW libs for SAT in that particular product or not).

Ill ask David Gill, just out of curiosity...(I always thought they were selling their own translators.) anyway I'm happy as long Autodesk does not acquire Solid++ :)

>But also one other note - the message that you quoted asking about how to use the imported SAT data in Revit was not about a file incompatibility at all but just about what steps are needed within Revit to prepare any SAT import for use as one of their "mass" objects, rather than just a limited "symbol" type object. Just due to the way Revit's UI is set up you can't simply go directly to the import function, you have to create a new mass, _then_ import the data, and then it becomes the surface data for that mass. That's totally separate than file translation issues.

I see... sorry about that :(

Hi Neo & Michael...

>I'm happy as long Autodesk does not acquire Solid++
Just in case autodesk acquire Solid++, what will happen to MoI, is there any bad effect ?

Thanks :)