Hi Michael,

You often say that styles itself doesn't have a visible/hidden state. But considering this...
Let's say there is a style Blue with some objects that belong to it and those objects are all hidden (Blue style has no eye icon). Now I activate a style other than Blue and draw an object. Then select this new created one and assign it to Blue style by left-click on (blue) swatch - object disappears! But it shouldn't because I don't assign hidden status to that object, I only "move" it to the Blue style. Note that it doesn't happen if there is at least one visible object in the Blue style (half eye icon).
Since the hidden state of object was inherited from Style, it is something I consider to be a bug.

Petr

Hi Petr, yup actually that is not a bug, it's a special feature I added to the scene browser when clicking on a swatch.

When you click on a swatch, to assign the selection to it, if all the objects currently belonging to that style are all hidden or locked, then the objects being assigned will also assume that same hidden or locked state.

The idea for that is to help make Styles in the scene browser a bit more familiar and somewhat similar to the traditional layer system that some people are used to.

There still is not any hidden or locked state assigned specifically to the style all on its own, it is just a mechanism that alters the object state along with its style assignment in this particular case.

That only happens if you click on a swatch in the scene browser to assign the style, if you use the dropdown in the properties panel it won't do that extra stuff.

- Michael

Perhaps what Petr is expecting then is for the new object to set the state to some visible or the half-eye as it's called?

I don't believe this has ever happened to me while working, but lets say I'm working an engine part for my spaceship.

I want to assign the same style to this new part while I'm working - however, I've previously hidden all the other similarily styled objects to free up space to work specifically on this new one.

When I assign the existing (hidden) style to the new one, poof my new object is now hidden!

Now I have to unhide the objects, and rework the visibilities...

I can at least see how this would perhaps annoy folks to some degree?

If anything it forces you to make the style assignment as the last step to avoid this behavior.

Perhaps an INI setting can be added; "Maintain Style Visibility" or some such to give the option to allow or prevent this behavior.

-Will

PS - I see that you said using the dropdown avoids this - the question then becomes how well the difference is known about the dropdown?

Hi Will, yup it's one of those difficult areas to choose between.

In the first beta release with styles it did not change the visibility, but in a discussion here on the forum someone complained about that behavior, because if you are using the scene browser and the style you are clicking on is currently all hidden (no eye), when you assign the selection to it, it feels like the style is somehow changing since it then changes from no eye to half eye.

That's kind of surprising if you are used to a layer system where the layers themselves have an on/off state instead of it being an individual object property.


Styles in MoI are kind of a blend between a materials list and a layers mechanism in other programs.

But when you are using the Styles section of the scene browser as a way to manage hiding/showing objects, that kind of use sort of aligns more with the "layer"-ish type aspect. So that's why it seems to make sense to make it behave more like layers when using the scene browser swatch for style assignment, but more like materials when using the properties panel.


This is just one of the many examples where I've tried to make some small adjustments in MoI to make it more comfortable for people who are used to a different system.


- Michael

Also for the next beta if you hold down shift+control when clicking on a style swatch in the scene browser, it will not modify any hide or lock state of the objects.

- Michael

That should be good enough - just have to remember all of these modifiers!

Maybe in an appendix within your manual you can list the commands that have modifiers like this - having this listing in a single place would prevent hunting for individual commands that may use modifier keys...

Just a thought.

-Will

Hi Will,

> Maybe in an appendix within your manual you can list
> the commands that have modifiers like this - having this
> listing in a single place would prevent hunting for individual
> commands that may use modifier keys...
>
> Just a thought.

Yup - there is actually a page for this already in the wiki here:
http://moi3d.com/wiki/Shortcut_Keys

That lists all the various keyboard modifiers for different commands (like what holding down Ctrl does in different cases, etc..) in one place there.

I have not yet added in the new ones for this latest beta yet though but I will soon.

- Michael

Hi Will, I've now updated that shortcuts info page (http://moi3d.com/wiki/Shortcut_Keys) with the new stuff.

The new info added:

------------------------------


Shortcuts related to Styles for v2:

On a scene browser color swatch, Ctrl+Left click will pop up the color picker as a quick way to edit a style's color.

On a scene browser color swatch, Ctrl+Shift+Left click will assign the selection to that style without altering the visibility or locked state of the objects to match the current style.

On a style color swatch (either in the scene browser or in the dropdown from the properties panel), holding down Shift while clicking on the swatch will assign the style to the parent object without modifying any sub-objects. The parent style is used when brand new faces are created in a solid for things like the Fillet command, when the new fillet surface is bordered by multiple different styles.

In the Edit styles dialog, right-clicking on a style works as a shortcut for selecting it and pushing the "Edit" button.

On the properties panel, right-clicking on the style line will pop up the Edit style dialog and let you edit the name and/or color of that style.


Other scene browser shortcuts:

Ctrl+click on a browser item's status icon (where the eye icon is normally displayed) will toggle Lock on or off.

Clicking on the name part of a scene browser item is used for selection, if you hold down Ctrl while clicking on it it will work for deselection instead of selection, and if you hold down Shift while clicking on it it will only select currently visible objects instead of selecting and showing all objects that belong to that slot.

Hi Michael,

>>In the first beta release with styles it did not change the visibility,
>>but in a discussion here on the forum someone complained about that behavior

ok. I must have missed that message. And your explanation about changing that behaviour to be more predictable is rational and clear.

Petr

Hi Petr,

> ok. I must have missed that message.

It was back in this discussion thread:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2619.11

That feedback from Pitrak made me aware that someone who was really used to layers would expect to have the visibility of the object altered when it got assigned to a "hidden layer".

It has been a goal to try and make the Styles section of the browser feel at least somewhat familiar to people who are used to traditional AutoCAD-ish layers.

It's kind of a balance though - by not just doing an exact clone of layers it lets things have a lot more flexibility since there can multiple sections of organization methods used in the scene browser. With traditional layers it is not very easy to have things like a named object list with independent visibility control from the layers, because with traditional layers you can't just turn on one object all by itself without also turning on its whole layer.

- Michael