Hi Burr, that's actually been a major focus to kind of avoid doing that sort of "plop in default object" type thing because it tends to require more steps, rather than creating it at the desired spot and size right from the start. Also MoI is kind of shooting more for an overall feel of "drawing" with those particular tools.

One thing that you could do to get what you want there though would be to create a file with the "default sphere" in it, then set up a keyboard shortcut that does an import of that file.

For instance if you make a file with a sphere in it named c:\sphere.3dm, set up a keyboard shortcut that has this as the command:

Import c:\sphere.3dm

Then when you hit that key you'll get the "default sphere" pop into your model. It will actually be selected and ready to be modified.

So that system may work for you - you can set up any number of files with other "default" shapes in them as well and put those on other keys.


> Also, For sphere size properties, can we get the xyz dims
> right off the bat (along with the radius)

Yeah I was thinking about this a bit... Having that stuff all on the panel at the same time kind of felt clunky.

The other problem is what if you do a non-uniform edit of the xyz dims so that the object is no longer a sphere? What would I do with the Radius: value in that case?

- Michael

The default files import will do what I need. Thanks

>>The other problem is what if you do a non-uniform edit of the xyz dims so that the object is no longer a sphere? What would I do with the Radius: value in that case?
>>

The Radius value disappears when the object is no longer a sphere(It does this now). I dont know this part of the UI so I aquiesse to what you say.

It did feel redundent when I suggested it but it just goes along with the working from the properties pane that I mentioned. I guess this would take the UI in 2 different directions. Kindof like saying "whynot just make a "Commands Entry" field for the "Keyboard Folks". Just not part of the picture.

Still trying to peg your "Minds Eye" on MoI so I'm not wanting/expecting things that just dont fit!

Hmmm, A hidden Keyboard only box for the old school. (Its all there, Just need the docs for the command names!) :) Just Joshing! Maybe after your old and rich!

Hi Burr,

> The Radius value disappears when the object is no longer
> a sphere(It does this now). I dont know this part of the UI so
> I aquiesse to what you say.

The current one will disappear when it is opened the next time. But if you could "unsphere-ify" a sphere while that menu remained open the whole time, that is a sort of different problem. I guess it would need to dynamically disappear or appear rather than only needing to do it when the menu is opened, which is kind of a problem right now.

re: Keyboard only - actually I've tried to keep things pretty keyboard-only friendly in many places!

Like for instance if you want to draw a line 10 units long, type in 10 [enter] while drawing it, you don't need to click on any controls.

If you want to draw a rectangle of width 10 and height 20, start the rectangle command, pick the start corner, and then type in: 10 [tab] 20 [enter] - no clicks on any controls for width/height are actually needed.


That's due to the auto-focus mechanism that automatically places your keystrokes into a numeric edit field when it sees that there is one available and you typed in a numeric value.

That whole mechanism is there just to make things easier for keyboard-only folks! :)


But launching commands by typing in a command name is a kind of different deal. I've thought a bit before about using the xyz input as a possible way to do that... But it is not quite a great fit, maybe some kind of optional plugin for v3 that makes a "command line entry" panel for the side pane...

- Michael

MoI has a great workflow that I could not make better. It's obvious you dont just start sticking things in on a whim. It's been thought out.

The one shot radius is nice, just not what "I'M" used to. You could in theory acheive the same thing with an xyz value that auto fills all values the same as the first entered, but then lets the next values be changed. That would do both birds but just might not fit with the sleek interface.

So, open sphere and type 5 and the x y z values all fill 5, yet the "keep proportions" is off by default so when I hit tab and type 2.......squish!

Again it was just a whim thinking to spark the thinking, but it becomes more obvious that your not working on whims! Well thought out.

The flow of MoI is very smooth. The keyboard comment was refering to the auotcad or rhino type fields where you can call command and give parameters in one shot. Kindof like "Cyl 6 2 12,20 2 6 Enter" Bam! I agree this would be a good area for the community when these things open up.

Thanks for the time.

> You could in theory acheive the same thing with an xyz
> value that auto fills all values the same as the first
> entered, but then lets the next values be changed. That
> would do both birds but just might not fit with the sleek
> interface.

Hmmm, I guess that would be possible for sphere, but what about for cylinder and cone where there are 2 values of radius + height ?


It is actually not very hard to tweak the UI, the actual code for the bounding box editor can be applied to spheres.

I've attached a custom version of the size editor that will show x: y: z: for everything except for a line, so that should let you get your version set up to do what you want. Copy the attached EditSizeMenu.htm over top of the old one to get it set up like that. There is currently a bug where the "Radius" display in the top-level panel (the spot where you click to open the edit menu) does not update properly if you edit an radiused object by x,y,z values, but it is just a display glitch the actual edit itself works fine. I'll fix that up but in the meantime you'll need to unselect and reselect the object to get the correct display there.


> The keyboard comment was refering to the auotcad
> or rhino type fields where you can call command and
> give parameters in one shot. Kindof like
> "Cyl 6 2 12,20 2 6 Enter" Bam!

Sort of... But actually you don't normally type in a single long line like that in the UI in rhino or autocad - each time you hit space it is the same as enter so the command prompt will change and your line will clear after each of those space values.

For most things MoI's auto-focus mechanism that I was mentioning earlier actually makes things work pretty much the same way with MoI except for that very first initial word that launches the command.

Like for instance in MoI if you want to do a line from 5,2 to 6,9 start the line command, then you can type everything after that, pretty much the same as autocad or rhino after the command has started. You can even use a lot of the same kind of type-in point notation that autocad supports, like @2,2 for relative values (although r2,2 is kind of easier to remember unless you've used autocad a whole lot), polar coordinates like 5<45, etc...


There is one kind of big problem with the fully command-line focused input mechanism ( aside from it being kind of archaic geeky ;) ) which is that it is pretty much based on having only one type of numeric input available at a time.

Like in Rhino if you go to draw a rectangle you don't actually get any numeric feedback at all about the width and height of the rectangle you are currently drawing with your mouse on the screen. You can type in a width and then after that a height but you don't get feedback about those values with mouse moves.

When you draw a rectangle in MoI, you get a more dialog-box like UI in that upper corner which is not limited to only one single numeric input at a time, that lets it have a richer amount of feedback which for rectangle for example lets you see width and height values update while you move your mouse around.

That's pretty much the example that early off killed off any thought about doing a command-line interface as the primary UI for MoI.

- Michael

After your input I see the path going down the road of 1200 different Gui presentations depending on which command-click-variable....etc, Which I know is not the MoI target. Thanks for the time.

FYI: I think out loud alot, with peril at my step. Dont make custome gui stuff for me unless Its such a great idea it will be in MoI! I aquesse here and will use MoI as it is produced, and pick up the cool custom commands as they are added to the pot. I'll try out the new EditSizeMenu.htm to see your point but wouldnt have interest in deviating from the path of the release!

(My continued posting on the subject wasnt trying to convince you, Just babble.)

Thanks again,
Burr

I just tried the "EditSizeMenu" you posted for me and it made your point. It did Exacly what I like for the "SPHERE" but for "Cone" it was not the appropriate dialog. I preffer the original one. Same for all the others that you could mention. The only solution would be to have the multiple options for multiple tools for multiple user prefs.... I see the logic and wouldnt change it.

Burr

Hi Burr, actually I was kind of thinking that you were doing something special with squishing spheres and didn't need to worry about cones and cylinders...

That UI wasn't really meant to make a point, I mean I don't think I'm going to set it up that way by default, but it sounded like it could be useful for what you were wanting to do.

UI and workflow and such can be pretty individual areas. I mean what feels right for one person can really pretty easily feel weird to another. It's impossible really, to make one single thing that totally matches everyone's wishes all at the same time.

But that's why it's kind of cool to be able to have a custom one if you want something different than the default standard thing that I come up with.... You'll be kind of a bit more "on your own" from a support standpoint with customized stuff but if you like the custom version better, go ahead and use it! :)

- Michael

Its actually cool to see the ui in action. I may make notes and when stuff opens up later, I could create my own custom "set" like..... "If Sphere"-Redirect to version 1, If Cone......I could make it as complicated as I like!

Anyway, through the beta, I'll just try to give valuable input. When it's all done, The power of the UI will be an imeasurable value.

Burr