Well, one problem is that you don't just have n-gons there, you have n-gons with interior holes in them for those planar faces.

I don't believe that the OBJ format has any way to express holes in polygons.

Which software is he using there, is that Hexagon? What happens if you export that cleaned up shape from Hexagon out to an OBJ file and then read it back in again, does it maintain that same structure or has it become triangulated?

- Michael

Michael, you're probably right about the fact that exporting again in OBJ format will generate new triangles... Hexagon does that, Wings3D does that, Blender too, as so does Silo... ;-)

FYI, in Wings3D, you can affect a specific material to polygons to define them as holes.
Although N-gons seems a bit unrealistic, I second the request of Steph3D for what concerns untriangulation. Whenever possible I would prefer to have quads instead of triangles.
MoI objects export nicely in other applications (I tried OBJ) as long as the object is "final". I've had some issues for objects that I want to refine further in other applications (ZBrush for example) but I've not experimented enough to report now.

Coming back on materials, could it be possible to implement "colours" for objects (or faces and even curves...). A basic colour system would do the trick for me, with a few selection options (select objects or faces by colour, hide by colour...)

Enough for today... Now it's time to go and play with MoI !

Cya

Schbeurd

Ok, so can you ask him to do a quick test - export the cleaned up stuff from Cinema4D as an OBJ file, and then read it back in.

Does it still maintain the ngon structure, or does it get triangulated?

If it maintains the structure, then it would be great to see the OBJ file so I can see what is contained within it.

- Michael

hi all,
that is an interesting thread.

i have also problems with OBJ files... lightwave and modo read this but with the triangles the object looks not good... i hope that the OBJ convert makes those nice object similar the first pic in the thread.... ngons are cute but not necessary... quad´s are good enough

cinema4d reads the 3dm file very good... cinema understand nurbs...

bye, HoMe

Well, I think that there's certainly a lot better hope for doing quads than full ngons.

Quads are technically possible to have in an obj file, but I'm not sure if this will be well supported by all of these programs.

I'll need to know if these programs can export quads to .obj, then read the quads back in properly - and also if non-planar quads are supported or not.

- Michael

As you say, the .obj format supports n-gons, but not holes in polygons.

I think exporting quads would be a good solution for the quality of the exported object and compatability to most softwares. (Some softwares, like z-brush, have equaly large problems with tris as with n-gons)

My major problem with the export at the moment was the inability to use the quality slider, it was non operational/stuck on few polygons.

(Like it's described in this post: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=137.5 )

Hmm, does the slider seem to actually work if you click on different spots inside of it, even though the knob is not drawing?

Like if you click on the slider near the left side of it, do you get fewer polygons?

- Michael

from Steph3D


C4D don't manage Nurbs : it has "Hyper Nurbs" but it is absolutly not "Nurbs"
Obj format is a real enigma : it manages Ngones but not on all object!!! :(
Quadrangles are very well manage by obj format
Coplanar surfaces are easily cleaning with ngones in C4D & Hexagon
but if surfaces are too triangulated any progs don't know how make that!
(if you make a such prog, you will makes some money !)

Here the files in Rar format http://www.steph3d.net/Export.rar

Your Import IGES -->Export in STL works very well! :)

The architecture object http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=141.1 was cleaned with the "Ngons tool" of C4D

Ps
Some people have message from their Anti Virus at the MoI install !? (two persons for the moment)

<Within the archive there is the Adware software (called "55c5y1mk.exe"), and I do not like these better then my firewall.
The exe (see above) had been put there by ??, and I would not advice to install Adware soft, even it is made by ??. :)>
and this one <Adware/CommAd alert message>

Good and bad Topology by Steph3D :)
Why a clean model?
- For modelize over
- For a more speedy Open GL visualisation
- For a more easy reading
- For texture and UV : triangles = evil :)
- It's more beautiful :D



In this C4D don't arrive to clean all surfaces :(



Not yet an "Esc" for a break in case of too long computering? :)
(filet with too big measure--->wait wait wait)
A freeze object function, a group fonction, a layer function :)
What a number of complaints :)
Steph is insatiable consuming :D

On my computer(s) trying to move the slider unseen does not make any difference to the export, it just exports on the lowest (I believe) setting.

Hi Pilou, thanks for gathering more information.

So I don't believe that his original request to have the fully cleaned ngon support is really possible, since it is not possible to have a polygon with a hole in it in an OBJ file. Even Cinema4D is not able to generate the type of file that he wants!

But as others have requested, it is possible to do a quad export where possible, that's what I will focus on.


> <Within the archive there is the Adware software (called "55c5y1mk.exe"), and I do> not like these better then my firewall. The exe (see above) had been put there by ??,
> and I would not advice to install Adware soft, even it is made by ??. :)>
> and this one <Adware/CommAd alert message>

Wow, this is the first I've heard of this. I definitely have not put any kind of adware into MoI!!!

I just ran spybot search & destroy and AdAware on my system, and I could not detect this problem.

Do you know what adware checker they are using? It is not uncommon for there to be "false positive" reports, especially with some checkers.

They should probably run a virus checker as well, it is possible they have a virus that is infecting their files. The official release of the last beta should have this exact size:
4,536,544 moi_Sep-26-2006_setup.exe
If it is different than that, their file has become infected after it was downloaded.


MoI has been downloaded 15,367 times so far - I'm confident that if the original was infected I would have heard something about it before now.

I did a google search for "55c5y1mk.exe" and got nothing...

- Michael

- @ HoMe : No, Cinema 4D doesn't seem to be able to import 3DM (or IGES) files. If you're able to do that, please explain how.

- @ Michael : Dragging the (imaginary) sliders in both the UI options dialog box or the export mesh dialog box doesn't make any change (and it also doesn't work with multiple clicks in the area)

Also, on my other computer I noticed that OBJ export is some kind of "all or nothing". If the slider is put to the left, I've a low poly version. Then if I drag to the right I've a high poly version but no gradation between the two. The file size and the number of polygons is the same when I export an object with the slider at the middle of the bar or if the slider is at the extreme right.
As you mentioned that export is still a "work in progress" it's difficult to know if it's normal (for now on) or if it's something to report ?

< I'm confident that if the original was infected I would have heard something about it before now
You right ! Seems these guys have yet something wrong on their computers :)

> Also, on my other computer I noticed that OBJ export is some kind of
> "all or nothing". If the slider is put to the left, I've a low poly version.
> Then if I drag to the right I've a high poly version but no gradation
> between the two. The file size and the number of polygons is the same
> when I export an object with the slider at the middle of the bar or if the
> slider is at the extreme right.

Yeah, the problem here is the way that meshing works - the basic approach is that a smooth surface is continually subdivided into two pieces (repetitively) until each piece matches some kind of tolerance.

So things come in kind of "chunks" - once a surface is split, the new smaller pieces will often times be within a much tighter tolerance so they won't subdivide again until the tolerance is reduced by quite a bit more.

Eventually I should be able to improve this by doing some initial forced subdivision of the surface into more than just 2 pieces at a step, but this may take a while.

- Michael

>@Schbeurd
>Seems very curious all works fine for me for the mini "few" or the "max" numbers of polygones !
>As show some pos above http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=141.10

I think that what he's talking about is that if you move the slider by a small amount, you don't really get a very gradual change in the number of polygons. It will work more like you move the slider by a little bit and nothing changes, and then you move a little more and suddenly things double in some spots...

But there should still be a lot of difference between large different positions of the slider most of the time, as you show.

- Michael

I just have to jump in here and say that nendo exports ngons to obj just fine.

#
# Exported from Nendo v1.1
#
mtllib ngon.mtl
g dodecahedron0
usemtl dodecahedron0_material
# vertex list
v 17.265 0 6.18
v 10 10 10
v 0 6.18 17.265
v 0 -6.18 17.265
v 10 -10 10
v -10 -10 10
v -6.18 -17.265 0
v 6.18 -17.265 0
v 10 -10 -10
v 17.265 0 -6.18
v 10 10 -10
v 6.18 17.265 0
v -6.18 17.265 0
v -10 10 10
v -17.265 0 6.18
v -17.265 0 -6.18
v -10 -10 -10
v 0 -6.18 -17.265
v 0 6.18 -17.265
v -10 10 -10
# vertex normals
vn 0.572321 -0.601118 0.557769
vn -0.0503684 -0.361915 0.930849
vn -0.0503684 0.361915 0.930849
vn 0.572321 0.601118 0.557769
vn 0.957119 2.34636e-008 0.289695
vn 0.289695 0.957119 0
vn 0.557769 0.572321 -0.601118
vn 0.930849 -0.0503684 -0.361915
vn 0.930849 -0.0503684 0.361915
vn 0.557769 0.572321 0.601118
vn 0.930849 0.0503684 -0.361915
vn 0.557769 -0.572321 -0.601118
vn 0.289695 -0.957119 0
vn 0.557769 -0.572321 0.601118
vn 0.930849 0.0503684 0.361915
vn 0.361915 -0.930849 -0.0503684
vn -0.361915 -0.930849 -0.0503684
vn -0.601118 -0.557769 0.572321
vn -2.34636e-008 -0.289695 0.957119
vn 0.601118 -0.557769 0.572321
vn -0.572321 -0.601118 0.557769
vn -0.957119 -2.34636e-008 0.289695
vn -0.572321 0.601118 0.557769
vn 0.0503684 0.361915 0.930849
vn 0.0503684 -0.361915 0.930849
vn -0.601118 0.557769 0.572321
vn -0.361915 0.930849 -0.0503684
vn 0.361915 0.930849 -0.0503684
vn 0.601117 0.557769 0.572321
vn -2.93295e-008 0.289695 0.957119
vn -0.361915 0.930849 0.0503684
vn -0.601118 0.557769 -0.572321
vn -2.34636e-008 0.289695 -0.957119
vn 0.601118 0.557769 -0.572321
vn 0.361915 0.930849 0.0503684
vn -0.557769 0.572321 0.601118
vn -0.930849 -0.0503684 0.361915
vn -0.930849 -0.0503684 -0.361915
vn -0.557769 0.572321 -0.601117
vn -0.289695 0.957119 0
vn -0.557769 -0.572321 0.601117
vn -0.289695 -0.957119 0
vn -0.557769 -0.572321 -0.601118
vn -0.930849 0.0503684 -0.361915
vn -0.930849 0.0503684 0.361915
vn -0.601118 -0.557769 -0.572321
vn -0.361915 -0.930849 0.0503684
vn 0.361915 -0.930849 0.0503684
vn 0.601118 -0.557769 -0.572321
vn -2.93295e-008 -0.289695 -0.957119
vn -0.0503684 0.361915 -0.930849
vn -0.0503684 -0.361915 -0.930849
vn 0.572321 -0.601118 -0.557769
vn 0.957119 2.93295e-008 -0.289695
vn 0.572321 0.601118 -0.557769
vn -0.957119 -2.93295e-008 -0.289695
vn -0.572321 -0.601118 -0.557769
vn 0.0503684 -0.361915 -0.930849
vn 0.0503684 0.361915 -0.930849
vn -0.572321 0.601118 -0.557769
f 1//5 2//4 3//3 4//2 5//1
f 2//10 1//9 10//8 11//7 12//6
f 1//15 5//14 8//13 9//12 10//11
f 5//20 4//19 6//18 7//17 8//16
f 4//25 3//24 14//23 15//22 6//21
f 3//30 2//29 12//28 13//27 14//26
f 12//35 11//34 19//33 20//32 13//31
f 13//40 20//39 16//38 15//37 14//36
f 15//45 16//44 17//43 7//42 6//41
f 18//50 9//49 8//48 7//47 17//46
f 11//55 10//54 9//53 18//52 19//51
f 20//60 19//59 18//58 17//57 16//56


copy that to a txt file,rename it to obj and look at it.Its a dodecahedron. Cheers

> I just have to jump in here and say that nendo exports ngons to obj just fine.

The original request in this thread is not just about ngons, it's about ngons with interior holes.

The "with interior holes" is the key thing there that I don't believe is possible with .obj format.

- Michael