V5 beta Apr-10-2022 available now
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 From:  Larry Fahnoe (FAHNOE)
10652.39 
Hi Michael,

Maybe I've not had enough coffee, but I'm puzzled as to why the beta is not liking my Extras startup script (based upon Max's Scripts menu)
https://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10353.1

First thought was some of the Mac filesystem changes (I'm on an M1 MBP) but it doesn't even get that far. Seems like the .js portion loads and creates the Extras icon in the menu bar, but the .htm portion never gets to starting the embedded <script>.

Something changed in CommandBarCustomUI maybe?

code:
moi.ui.commandBar.CommandBarCustomUI.insertAdjacentHTML( "beforeEnd", 
'<moi:Spacer/><moi:Spacer/><moi:CommandMenuButton icon="'+icon+'" menu="'+menu+'">'+title+'</moi:CommandMenuButton>');


--Larry
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 From:  Larry Fahnoe (FAHNOE)
10652.40 In reply to 10652.39 
Hi Michael,

I seek to use MoI with minimal changes, so my customizations are only done in the startup folder. In this case I have disabled the other startup scripts to see if they are part of the puzzle but the behavior is the same.

Reading the V5 Beta test thread I found your conversation with Psygorn in which you fixed his startup scripts. Those changes appeared to be applicable to my problem so I applied the same changes to my Extras.js and the result is strange in that the Extras icon no longer shows in the command bar area to the right of the snaps, but is instead showing up in the browser area beneath the objects, types, styles panels. This is behavior consistent with both MoI V4 and MoI v5 beta Apr-10-2022. My original Extras-001.zip is referenced in the prior message.

Additionally, although the icon has moved, under V5 beta the behavior remains the same: instead of creating a flyout menu with the list of commands as is normal with V4, V5 beta just creates a small empty box above the icon where the much larger flyout would normally appear. It seems that the embedded script is simply not run and there are no error messages with either my original Extras or the one which incorporates the changes shared with Psygorn. Puzzling...



--Larry
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.41 In reply to 10652.39 
Hi Larry, your Extras.htm and Extras.js are working ok on Windows but not on Mac.
I'll dig into it to see what's going wrong over there.

re:
> Those changes appeared to be applicable to my problem so I applied the same
> changes to my Extras.js and the result is strange in that the Extras icon no longer
> shows in the command bar area to the right of the snaps, but is instead showing
> up in the browser area beneath the objects, types, styles panels.

The strange result is how Psygorn wants the UI to be set up, that's what his modified
version does.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.42 In reply to 10652.39 
Hi Larry, I think it's some kind of bug in handling the file encoding of your Extras.htm file.

Something like a unicode character for the apostrophe in the comment.

If you use the version attached here does it work ok for you then?

I'll investigate a fix for it.

Thanks,
- Michael
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 From:  Larry Fahnoe (FAHNOE)
10652.43 In reply to 10652.42 
Hi Michael,

Oh good grief, I would never have guessed that (single quote vs apostrophe) to have been the problem. Yep, works perfectly once again, many thanks!

--Larry
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.44 In reply to 10652.43 
You're welcome Larry I'm glad it's running ok for you now.

So yes it was because of that one apostrophe was a unicode character. With the new theme support there were some changes to how .htm files were read and the Qt text stream loader doesn't behave exactly the same as the WebKit text encoding detector.

I'll see about using the WebKit text file loader again to get the same behavior as v4.

- Michael
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 From:  OGAR (OGAROGAR)
10652.45 
Hi Michael Gibson

My license key is not working when trying do download V5 beta Apr-10-2022. Can you help me figure out the problem. I purchased v3 and upgraded to v4, so I don't understand why my license key is not working?

Thanks
Ogar
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 From:  bemfarmer
10652.46 In reply to 10652.45 
My 3 licenses are in my MoI AppData folder, v2, v3, and v4.
- Brian
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.47 In reply to 10652.45 
Hi Ogar, please e-mail the license key to me at moi@moi3d.com so I can investigate what might be going wrong.

Thanks, - Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.48 In reply to 10652.45 
Hi Ogar,

re:
> My license key is not working when trying do download V5 beta Apr-10-2022. Can you help
> me figure out the problem. I purchased v3 and upgraded to v4, so I don't understand why
> my license key is not working?

Looking at the server web logs, it looks like the problem is you're putting the v3 key instead of your v4 key.

The v3 key starts with VER3- , the v4 one starts with VER4- that's the one you need.

You can find your v4 key in MoI v4 under Help > About MoI > "License keys" or also you can put in your e-mail address at https://moi3d.com/reinstall.htm and it will look up your license key and e-mail it to you.

- Michael
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 From:  r0ss0
10652.49 
Hi Michael.

If I buy the v4 now(as 2022-4-27), do I pay for the v5 upgrade or it will be a free upgrade?
Sorry if this has been asked.
Thanks!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.50 In reply to 10652.49 
Hi r0ss0,

> If I buy the v4 now(as 2022-4-27), do I pay for the v5 upgrade or it will be a free upgrade?

It would be a paid upgrade. There will be a "grace period" where if you purchase v4 within a couple of months of the v5 release you will get a free upgrade to v5. But the v5 beta period has only just recently started, the full release is quite a ways off yet definitely more than a couple of months.

So a v4 purchase right now would not be in the grace period time for getting a free v5 upgrade.

- Michael
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 From:  Larry Fahnoe (FAHNOE)
10652.51 In reply to 10652.1 
Hi Michael,

> Update Mac trackpad/Magic Mouse handling.

Two thumbs up on these changes! I use MOI on a MacBook Pro (without a mouse) & the V4 trackpad handling was inconsistent as you know. I haven't spent a lot of time with the beta but am noting with pleasure that I can use 2-finger drags to get panning reliably...used to be that sometimes it would get stuck and zoom instead. Now I have to "teach" myself to use it as intended! ;-}

--Larry
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 From:  RD (REDDIAMOND)
10652.52 
Hi Michael,

I'm currently testing Plasticity and some of the features are very interesting. More specifically the ability to do live Chamfering and Filleting and even more importantly the ability to rotate faces (there are still issues with rotating faces, but it looks promising).

Are these features something that you are considering at the moment for the next version of MoI? These features are extremely powerful and save an enormous amount of time when modeling.

Thank you.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.53 In reply to 10652.52 
Hi RD,

re:
> Are these features something that you are considering at the moment for the next version of MoI?

A few months ago I was planning on that but unfortunately the circumstances have changed and that's no longer the case.

Plasticity is doing them by using a geometry library called C3D. I had also wanted to use C3D to do the same things inside of MoI but it's become unfeasible to do that because C3D is the product of a Russian company and the Russia/Ukraine war has made it untenable to license it for use in MoI.

I might attempt to do my own implementation of direct face editing (the rotate face part) at some point here but I don't know when. There is a lot of work involved and so it's not very likely for the next version.

What is the situation with face rotation that is causing trouble in Plasticity, do you have an example of that?

- Michael
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 From:  RD (REDDIAMOND)
10652.54 In reply to 10652.53 
Have you considered using Parasolid instead of C3D? It looks like it's fairly expensive and based on what the creator of Plasticity has said (he's also exploring Parasolid because of the same reasons that you have just mentioned), it could increase the price of Plasticity significantly. But apparently this third party library has even some support to move and scale edges, which is very interesting.

About the example of issues with face rotation, I found some issues when filleting after doing the rotation operation, but I did not save the file unfortunately. I will let you know if I can re-create it and will post an example.

Thank you.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.55 In reply to 10652.54 
Hi RD, yes I've looked into using Parasolid before but it's not a great fit for MoI.

First because it's quite expensive and licensing it puts various restrictions on how you can price and deliver the product using it. In general it's very corporate/"Big Enterprise" oriented.

But also I found it to be kind of finicky in the type of geometry it accepts, especially with closed surfaces. It represents trimming boundaries on closed surfaces in a somewhat different way than MoI's current geometry library does and that makes for some problems in transferring model data between them.

It's a lot of work to switch everything in MoI over to a different library, the main way that I would want to use a new library would be to use it initially in just a couple of key spots like filleting, shelling, and face transforms and translate model data back and forth between the kernels. When the trim boundary mechanisms don't match up too well that becomes difficult to do with 100% reliability.

One of the things that was particularly good with C3D is that it represented trim boundaries similar to how MoI currently does where a trim boundary 3D edge curve maps directly to a surface uv parameter space curve and does not cross over the seam of a closed surface like Parasolid's method.

Maybe at some point I will re-evaluate it but not anytime soon. Certainly not for the next version. It's more likely that I would do some experimental work on face transforms myself first before doing that.

I'm fairly lucky that I didn't end up investing a whole lot of time with C3D, I had just started an in depth evaluation of it a couple of weeks before the war started.

- Michael
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 From:  RD (REDDIAMOND)
10652.56 In reply to 10652.55 
"First because it's quite expensive and licensing it puts various restrictions on how you can price and deliver the product using it. In general it's very corporate/"Big Enterprise" oriented."

That's the impression that I get from this as well.

"Maybe at some point I will re-evaluate it but not anytime soon. Certainly not for the next version. It's more likely that I would do some experimental work on face transforms myself first before doing that."

I hope that you succeed doing so, that would be a very valuable addition to MoI3d imo.

Here's an example of what I have mentioned previously when testing Plasticity and the face rotation function.

With a simple test cube, I've rotated one of the face, and then performed a Chamfer operation (not fillet actually, I could not reproduce it using fillet, but I'm certain that I have seen some strange results with the fillet operation as well). You can see the unexpected result in the fourth image. The last image is the same Chamfer operation performed on one of the cube faces, without any rotation. Hope this helps.

Thank you.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10652.57 In reply to 10652.56 
Hi RD, re: unexpected chamfer result on rotated face, it looks like that is the correct result for how chamfers and
fillets work in CAD.

Chamfers or fillets between surfaces at different angles will have different widths. It's because fillets and chamfers
in CAD are defined by surface offsets. It's not quite the same thing as in a poly modeling program.

They all match up on your unrotated one because all the surfaces are at the same angle to each other there.

I guess that chamfer in CAD inherits this mechanism from fillets. It's normal for fillets to be wider or narrower
depending on the changing angle between 2 curved surfaces:



There is no guarantee that fillets between different surfaces will have the same width where they run into each other,
unless the edges being filleted are smooth to each other.

Chamfers get constructed in the same way as fillets with the same varying width they just get a straight line put in as
the cross section for the fillet surface rather than an arc being the cross section.

- Michael

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 From:  bemfarmer
10652.58 
For some reason, in nodeeditor, in math node, sin[...] not longer functions properly, but sin(...) does function correctly,
in BOTH MoI V4, and MoI V5beta.

Possible culprits?:
a. Windows 11 upgrade did something.
b. MoI V5beta did something? But to both V5beta and V4.
c. ?

Nodeeditor was not changed by myself...except I did replace arraysExt.js from here:
https://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10671.2

The attached nod program has both [...] and (...) versions of SineWave built with nodes.

Perhaps someone who has not upgraded to Windows 11, or MoI V5beta could try the node program, in MoI V4?

- Brian

EDITED: 29 Apr 2022 by BEMFARMER


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