Full Version: V4 beta Feb-27-2019 available now

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Hi Mr. Yuri, a SubD-friendly file is structured very differently than what you will have in an STL file. The STL file contains only triangles while a SubD file should have all or nearly all quads and be sparser.

It's not a matter of just packaging the data in a different file format, the actual structure of the polygons needs to be redone.

There is a process called "retopology" which can be used for that kind of process, usually it's a manual process where you sketch out a quad only structure over top of a denser triangle mesh. There are some tools like TopoGun that can be used for that and also ZBrush has an automatic process called ZRemesher that does that kind of thing as well.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

Her are some notes on v4.

PDF export crash report
Mac Beta version crashes on my side when exporting a rectangle to pdf.
I tried on OSX 10.9.5 and on another machine on 10.12.6 and both crash.
On win 8.1, with Parallels, it exports fine.
On Mac version 3, it also exports ok.

Artefacts subject
On another side, I would like to add to the recurring display artefacts subject.
While I appreciate the display speed when working and can live with its side effects,
I often use MoI with a projector to quickly demonstrate geometry and moldmaking concepts
and it would be nice to be able to temporarily toggle to display or snapshot without artefacts.

3D view rotation speed observations
Also, I find that in 3D view space rotation and zoom in/out seem slower in v4 ("bumpy"?) when the grid is visible.
Much smoother when grid is masked or when using Parallel (isometric) view.
However, in Parallel view, display artefacts are more apparent.

Globally, I really enjoy working with the new version and am looking forward to use dimensions and annotations.
Thanks for all the attention you are giving to the user experience!

Michel

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Hi Michel, thanks for the v4 feedback!

re:
> PDF export crash report
> Mac Beta version crashes on my side when exporting a rectangle to pdf.
> I tried on OSX 10.9.5 and on another machine on 10.12.6 and both crash.

Was a crash report file generated? That would be under ~/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/

If one was generated could you please send it to me at moi@moi3d.com or post here?

One thing that you might check though is your setting for "Canvas megapixel resolution" in the PDF export options dialog when generating a hidden-line drawing. If that is set to a particularly large value but you do not have a corresponding very large amount of system memory then that could result in a crash currently. Since MoI v4 is 64-bit now the limit of how much memory it will try to consume has also been increased, that could be why you see a difference in behavior here between v3 and v4.

It takes up about 34 MB per megapixel and putting it at something like 1000 will consume about 34 GB.



re:
> 3D view rotation speed observations
> Also, I find that in 3D view space rotation and zoom in/out seem slower in v4 ("bumpy"?) when the grid is visible.
> Much smoother when grid is masked or when using Parallel (isometric) view.
> However, in Parallel view, display artefacts are more apparent.

What is your setting under Options > Grid > "Grid sections" ? The default is 150 but if you have changed that to put in a high value there that might cause these kinds of problems.


- Michael

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Hi Michael,

re:
> 3D view rotation speed observations
>What is your setting under Options > Grid > "Grid sections" ? The default is 150 but if you have changed that to put in a high value there that might cause these kinds of problems.

My setting in Options > Grid > "Grid sections" was way too high !
I turned it down to 1000 and now it's working fluidly.
Thanks !

re:
> PDF export crash report
I just sent you a crash dump.
This one still a mystery to me.
The MacBookPro has 16gb of memory and the other machine I tried was an 8gb iMac.
When exporting lines (no solids or surfaces), the "Canvas megapixel resolution" option is not there.
However, when I select export a Solid, the "Canvas megapixel resolution" option is set to "30.0".

Michel

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Hi Michel, thanks for sending the crash dump file. It appears to be a bug in converting a style name into a layer name for the PDF file.

Can you please send a .3dm file that will trigger the crash? That will help me to track down the bug.

- Michael

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Everything (basic functionality that I use) seems to be working great. New version install process is so smooth with it picking up CustomUI automatically, sweet!

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Hi Tover, thanks for testing it!

- Michael

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I like this theme, but I now have two issues with me install. Once I installed this theme I noticed my buttons on the command bar are round and it created two rows. I will prefer ever thing to be one row. How do I fix this?

Image Attachments:
Annotation 2019-07-04 133404.png 

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Hi Ron, I answered you on this other thread here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=9242.25

- Michael

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A very minor observation:
Circle TanCopy.js and Flow.js both use the "shorthand" "var ui = moi.ui;"
Circle TanCopy.js continues to use the "shorthand."
Flow.js uses the "shorthand" once, and then reverts to moi.ui.........

- Brian

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@Michael- Is there any way that we can adjust blend parameters after it has been created? Currently the blend updates if the blend references surfaces move or update. It would be cool if you could double click on a blend and adjust blend parameters- ie the initial surface creation parameters appear again so that you can adjust the bulge. It would be cool to do this on other features like revolve- double click on a surface to re-tweak parameters- cap or not, revolve angle etc:

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Hi parel, sorry no there is not currently any way to adjust those kinds of parameters later on. It is something that I want to explore in the future though.

- Michael

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Love the interface as is- look forward to where you take it.

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Hi Michael,


I was just wondering, will there be any other improvemenst or new features for V4 beside the measurements?

Don't get me wrong. Measurements is a big addition to MoI by itself. Was just wondering.



Thank you!

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Hi Stargazer, there will be an assortment of various bug fixes and a few smaller things but it's primarily annotations.

The back end for the annotations is pretty much done now, the main things left are UI for controlling them and seeing if I can get some export functionality.

Then it's time to wrap up v4 and move on to v5, I would like to work on a wider variety of new things for v5.

- Michael

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Cant wait to see the final V4... :-)

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Hello Michael,

I'm sorry if this has been both asked and answered already. If it has, maybe a shorter thread with just FAQs about the new version can be pinned.

I have a few questions I'd like to ask and issues with MOI 3.0 I'd like to report so that they're fixed in 4.0 :

1. MOI 3.0 sometimes has trouble properly importing some of my more complex .sat or .step models, even though the models loaded and displayed correctly in other software such as eDrawings 2019. Once imported, the CAD models would be missing surfaces or would have some surfaces distorted or snapped / joined to edges they shouldn't be joined to. And could also have disjointed edges as well. Can I provide samples to help ensure these issues are corrected in MOI 4.0? Here are a few examples :

a) the propeller.stp model you can download from here : https://grabcad.com/library/swept-blade-propeller-1

b) the cylindrical outer shell of the mould.quadlobe.toy.stp model you can download from here : https://grabcad.com/library/mould-for-the-plastic-toy-02-model-1 . It has a small orifice at the bottom which is supposed to allow fluid into the mould but when you open this in MOI 3.0 you get a flat square surface which plugs the inflow orifice.

If I export the model as a .sat file instead, it's much worse. The entire outer surface of the outer shell is missing.

I do all my modelling in a different CAD software and mainly only use MOI to export to .obj so reliable, correct export of CAD models really what I want most from MOI, above anything else. The only other operations I use MOI for are twist and flow.

2. Can I install MOI 4.0 alongside and separate from MOI 3.0 and not have it interfere with MOI 3.0 in any way, including not overwriting or changing MOI 3.0's configuration file? Otherwise I'd rather not switch to MOI 4.0 until the release version. I have the thread limit set to 1 and the undo levels to 0 to save memory so as to be able to import and export more complex models and meshes.

3. When exporting to .obj, without choosing to weld vertices, MOI 3.0 sometimes introduces unnecessary vertex duplication / seams.

Like with the flat bottom plate of this CAD model when you export it to .obj :

https://grabcad.com/library/impeller-design-12-1



or the flat bottom plate as well as center top curved surface of this CAD model, likewise when you export it to .obj :

https://grabcad.com/library/impeller-design-05-1





Normally, I export my models with vertex welding disabled and I also usually make use of both the 'avoid larger than' and 'avoid smaller than' options. Not sure if those constraints are forcing this behaviour to occur when it otherwise might not.

4. Is MOI 4.0 64 bit and can make use of more than 4 GB of memory?

5. What will be the upgrade price to MOI 4.0 for MOI 3.0 customers?

6. Any ETA on the release version of MOI 4.0 and the release version of MOI 5.0 ?

Attachments:
problem.models.7z

Image Attachments:
redundant.edge.png  redundant.edges.2.png  redundant.edges.png 

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.stl files aren't like .obj files because they cannot contain information about normals, don't use triangle indexing and cannot contain information about UVs.

You can use Meshlab to convert .stl files to .obj. On import of the .stl mesh file into Meshlab you'll be asked whether you wish to merge duplicate vertices. You'd want to choose yes because .stl doesn't use vertex indexing and each triangle is basically regarded as separate and on its own. And every vertex is consequently duplicated for each triangle that has a point at that vertex. Then you would go to Filters => 'Normals, Curvatures and Orientation' => 'Re-Compute Vertex Normals'. Then you can export as an .obj from File => 'Export Mesh As'.

You can also just use Meshmixer to open the .stl file and export as .obj. It should automatically attempt to generate averaged vertex normals, from my experience.

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You can import your .stl file into Meshlab and you can use Meshlab as follows :

1. File => Import Mesh => .stl file.
2. Filters => Remeshing, Simplification and Reconstruction => Subdivision Surfaces: Catmull-Clark - 1 iteration. This will convert all triangles in the mesh to quads.
3. Optionally, Filters => Normals, Curvatures and Orientation => Cut mesh along crease edges
4. Optionally, Filters => Normals, Curvatures and Orientation => Cut mesh along crease edges
5. Optionally, Filters => Normals, Curvatures and Orientation => Re-Compute Vertex Normals
6. File => Export Mesh => .obj file.

Alternatively, you can use Meshmixer to quickly and easily convert your .stl file to .obj and only afterwards import it into Meshlab to apply Catmull-Clark subdivision and the other steps. It will even generate averaged per-vertex normals automatically. When you apply Catmull-Clark in Meshlab you may afterwards need to rebuild the normals anyway.

You can also break a mesh into shading groups in Meshmixer as well, like in Meshlab - by specifying a threshold dihedral angle.

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Hi Larry, yes MoI v4 is now a 64-bit program and so can use all your system memory instead of running into 32-bit limits. So it can handle much larger files than v3.

Also there have been some other improvements such as using multiple CPU cores for processing objects so usually it's a lot faster loading files too.

There is a collection of all the V4 beta release notes at http://moi3d.com/wiki/V4Beta.

However, CAD file translation is a very complex area, the thing that tends to cause the most problems is that different CAD systems represent trim boundaries in somewhat different ways particularly on closed surfaces and so that means there can be some processing needed on trim boundaries at import time. It's a somewhat fragile area and when you see the type of distortions you mention it means something didn't go quite right with that. This can usually be corrected by doing some repair operations like untrimming and retrimming the messed up surface. There is a tutorial on these techniques at http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=446.17 .

Your propeller.stp model has the same issue in v4 as in v3. Unfortunately because it is a delicate area and we are at the very end of the v4 beta time period, it is not an area that I feel comfortable with making changes to because of the risk of introducing other bugs. It is an area that I would like to tune up in the future but it will have to happen earlier in a release cycle rather than at the end.

What happens with propeller.stp if you use IGES format instead of STEP/SAT ? If your software has an option for using IGES type 144 surfaces that could potentially have a trim boundary closer to what MoI needs and so might have less processing needed on it.

re: mould.quadlobe.toy.stp - the same plug problem is happening with v4 here as well. V4 does now import all the colors. If you delete that square plug you can then show naked edges (http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6051.2) to see where it was supposed to be. There is a very skinny ring there, only 0.0017 units wide. That can generally cause problems having such a small width. But if you select the object you can then use Construct > Planar to fill it in and then it all seems to be ok after that.

re:
> 2. Can I install MOI 4.0 alongside and separate from MOI 3.0 and not have it interfere with MOI 3.0 in any way,
> including not overwriting or changing MOI 3.0's configuration file?

By default they will install to separate directories but they will use the same moi.ini file. But there isn't any problem with them using the same moi.ini file, v4 will add some more entries to it for new things in v4 but those are just ignored by v3. It is possible to make v4 use a separate moi.ini file, you can do that by either putting a moi.ini file in the same folder as moi.exe, then it will use that one. You'll need to make v4 run with administrator privileges for it to be able to write to the file though. Or another thing is if you pass a path to a moi.ini file (put " " around it if there are any spaces in the path), it will then use that ini file.

re:
> Otherwise I'd rather not switch to MOI 4.0 until the release version. I have the thread limit set to 1 and
> the undo levels to 0 to save memory so as to be able to import and export more complex models and meshes.

Moi v4 is far, far better at dealing with complex models so if that's an area you're working with I would definitely recommend using v4 now instead of v3. There are improvements in a lot of areas for this - no 32-bit memory limit, multi core object processing on load, a file progress indicator on load rather than everything just freezing until it's done, and improvements in the display engine.


re:
> 3. When exporting to .obj, without choosing to weld vertices, MOI 3.0 sometimes introduces unnecessary
> vertex duplication / seams.

If I understand you correctly those seams are in spots where a surface has a hole in it. Most polygon mesh formats do not have the concept in them of a polygon with an internal hole in it, so when there is a hole in a surface after it has been subdivided, the polygon will be divided through the hole so as to bridge the outer and interior loop so it can be represented by a regular polygon instead of a polygon with an internal hole "island".


> 5. What will be the upgrade price to MOI 4.0 for MOI 3.0 customers?

The upgrade price is $100 between versions, although if you ordered MoI v3 within the past 8 or 9 months or so you will be able to get a free upgrade.


> 6. Any ETA on the release version of MOI 4.0 and the release version of MOI 5.0 ?

I don't have a specific date yet, there will still be one more v4 beta release before the final one. I don't have any idea yet when v5 will be released. It should not be anywhere as long as the gap between v3 and v4 though which has been from a major rewrite undertaken for v4 to get it to be 64-bit and also a Mac native build.

Thanks, - Michael

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