Full Version: V4 beta May-12-2018 available now

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Ciao Michael!

@You : "...It doesn't mean that I'm not going to ever add new features, but it does mean that I tend to wait to add them until there is a good plan in mind for where they fit in the UI without making it too complex..."

Perfect! I agree.
As I said, I know that you have the fully ability to improve Moi and keep it clean and easy.

But maybe, please kindly let me simply express my opinion without any judgment, maybe I think that you're only a "little bit" too "hesitant" in adding these new features :)

But, this is only my very personal opinion, that's not changing in any way my great appreciation about Moi and your job!

Ciao!

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I have mentioned to add "robustness" to the tools and features...and this by all means doesn't mean to bloat Moi with features, as i said, one of the greatest things about Moi is in its simplicity.... If anyone needs anything complex you can always to to Rhino, Alias, Solidworks, etc..

By robustness of the features i mean on, for example, Moi has Fillet simple as that no need to change how you work with it but only now to make it work on complex surfaces and not be bothered with edges too much, or that you can fillet multiple points on separate curves at the same time. You have the ability to select faces and edges, why not now to be able to move them around freely. Shell command i often find to be "sensitive" it works on simple thing beautifully but on more complex things it tends to fail...etc. Like this I think there can be added lots to Moi functionally in that way without adding a single new icon or anything to UI and with that not to "bloat" Moi3D.

The main thing about Moi3d is, and even front page says that, "3D modeling for designer and artists", which is absolutely true even as Moi3d works now. The thing i have noticed is that the lack of previous mentioned "robustness" of the features makes you often to fall back on convoluted workflows to solve problems which then defeats the purpose of being artist friendly. In software like Fusion360 (and lots of others) i can see people adding fillets like it's nothing crossing edges and on complex surfaces in a second which allow you to design freely, while the same thing in Moi3D simple edge gets in a way and you are done and you compromise instead for a good enough solution or if you have a bit experience spend 10-15min trimming, rebuilding, blending the fillet manually.


Don't get me wrong here, as Marco said, i am not here judging and pointing finger, i am just giving a feedback on Moi3d based on last few years i've been using it. I love it otherwise i would switch to others long time ago and that is exactly why i am saying all this...just wishing all the best and to be sure we can use Moi in the distant future too! Please don't be to hesitant to add few features to make Moi3d even more pleasant to work with. 10-15 new features is nothing, people learn and adapt and then they will most likely wonder eventually how they even worked before without the same features. It is not like you will add 200 new features suddenly.


Last thing on this "bloating Moi" topic, to have in mind. I find it interesting, as far as i can see, people have absolutely no problem with adding, using and setting even dozens of custom scripts as shortcuts or adding them in custom UI and using all wonderful scripts of Max Smirnov and others, etc...yet suddenly adding essential functionally to the core of Moi3d is seen as bloating it with features. Just something to think about.


Sorry for the long post. ;) That's it from me on this topic.

Best,
Klaudio

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Hi Klaudio, yes I definitely agree that both filleting and shelling are the weakest areas of MoI currently. They are also unfortunately extremely difficult to implement, to do a good job on them isn't just a bug fix it's more about classifying and handling lots of different special cases. Probably the main way forward to improving these will involve licensing an additional geometry library that has had more time invested in these areas. That's something that I've tried to do twice already but without success for various reasons out of my own control. I will likely attempt it again in v5. I do consider it a very desirable target area to improve in MoI but it's just not likely to happen in v4.

> I find it interesting, as far as i can see, people have absolutely no problem with adding,
> using and setting even dozens of custom scripts as shortcuts or adding them in custom
> UI and using all wonderful scripts of Max Smirnov and others, etc...yet suddenly adding
> essential functionally to the core of Moi3d is seen as bloating it with features. Just
> something to think about.

Well it's easy to get a skewed sense of this when you're only seeing feedback from experienced users. Users who don't have any prior experience in 3D or even limited experience with using the computer at all do not do all these customization things, they are the ones that are hit hardest by bloat.

That's another way that bloat happens naturally - long time users aren't affected by it as much (or at least build up a tolerance for it) and so don't complain about it but the brand new user is a much different case. They actually don't complain about it either, instead they just give up.

I am entering a period though where I'll be introducing more new features than I have for a while - the last couple of years have been dominated by a major rewrite to get to 64-bit and a Mac native version and then stabilizing that. It ended up taking a lot more time than I had thought it would but it's a much better foundation for going forward.

I do want MoI to be useful for many types of users, not just beginning users. But the beginning users are the ones that have the most to lose since they have the fewest options.

- Michael

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To my opinion one thing that is needed urgently -I have said it in another thread too- is a deforming by cage! It is a very needed feature. It is really a problem to go back and forth by exporting importing an object for being able to deform it in another app.

As to other needed features I do double the thoughts of Metin. Having a good quad (or even hybrid) mesher for obj export would be great. The present exporter is good but if you want to send the object for sculpting there arise a lot of problems: especially the fact that there is a so dense accumulation of polygons on the fillet areas makes the remeshing in other apps difficult. It would be great, indeed, to have an alternative way of exporting the models by shaping on them a more suitable for sculpting mesh.

And... a simple, nice scroll where the user could insert, with icons of his own design, the add-on scripts please... most of the add-ons are very useful and it is difficult to remember them by keyboard shortcuts only.

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Hi Dimitri, I think Max's CustomUI extension has a scripts menu. If you set that up you wouldn't need to remember keyboard shortcuts to access scripts.

For sculpting which program are you using, have you tried 3D Coat's voxel sculpting mode? As far as I know it is not sensitive to polygon density since polygons are converted into voxels and then you sculpt with the voxels.

- Michael

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Hi Michael! I know Max's script but I would prefer to have such a thing natively built in Moi. But anyway, ok, Max's script too may do the work! : - )

Now, as to the 3D Coat... I do use it but I do have to make more experiments with it. Just yesterday made a retopo with it to a base ring model got from Moi (below is the rendered result in Blender's Cycle). It did not occur to me trying directly to work on it in voxel mode. Will try it. Thanks for mentioning it!

Btw, keep in mind please the cage deformer thing... Moi could be great for ring designers! : - )

Image Attachments:
Ring sculpted.jpg 

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Hello Michael,

I am trying the new MoI 3D version. That's really great. Especially when I saw the possibility of the new OpenGL option. I tested it right away. So I put GraphicsAPI=OpenGL in the moi.ini file.

And, there, it's great, navigation with a 3D mouse is really faster on large files.

However, I have the same problem as Bernhard.
I can no longer select anything; neither curves, nor objects, nor surfaces.

For information, I work with Windows 10 Pro V1803.
One Gigabyte GTX960 4GB graphics card, one Wacom Intuos 3 tablet and one Xeon X5472 CPU

Daniel

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Hi Daniel, you might try updating your video driver to the latest version available and see if that makes any difference. It's probably best to get it directly from nVidia's web site.

One other thing you might check is in your video card system settings, if anti-aliasing is forced on there it can interfere with selection, it should be set to something like "application controlled".

If neither of those help then you'll have to stick with Direct3D11 for now, but possibly if I can solve the texture readback problem on Wine it may solve it for your case as well.

- Michael

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I am getting very slow viewport feedback when rotating, selecting etc in larger models. I loaded up the same model in 3.1 and I get much a faster / smother response. I am using OS X 10.123.4 with a Radeon Pro 580 graphics card.

Thanks,

-Shane

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Hello Michael,

Thank you for your answer.
I took your advice:
1) To update the video card, I have the latest version from nVidia.

2) Following your advice, I did some tests in the nVidia control panel. I went to 3D Settings / Manage 3D Settings / Program Settings.
There, I added the MoI 3D V4 executable to make modifications only for MoI 3D.
Then I disabled the first three Antialiasing lines: FXAA, Gamma Correction, Mode.
The most important to disable is FXAA Antialiasing.
By disabling these parameters, normal volume and curve selection is possible in the 3D View.
However, in the other three 2D views (Top, Face and Right) the selections do not work for the curves and work randomly for the volumes.
I hope this information can help you with debugging.

Otherwise, I'm running in DirectX mode.
And I look forward to the new version and of course the new features of the V4.

Sincerely,
Daniel

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Hi shane,

re:
> I am getting very slow viewport feedback when rotating, selecting etc in larger models.
> I loaded up the same model in 3.1 and I get much a faster / smother response. I am
> using OS X 10.123.4 with a Radeon Pro 580 graphics card.

Can you please e-mail me at moi@moi3d.com and I will send you a test version with some changes that may help.

Thanks, - Michael

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