Full Version: 3d coat vs zbrush

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Pilou,
That is a very cool tool and power in ZBrush. Does anyone know if 3dcoat can do this? I've searchred over there a bit and only found something related to bringing a poly model in to voxels...

I dont want to flood the MoI forum either with "how to use 3dcoat", but just looking at advice on which app will be best in the longrun.

Maybe I just need to know what to search for in 3dcoat.

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"yo yo hip.....word up now.....(spit,spiff,p-poof pah, spit.....spit,spiff,p-poof pah, spit)
my name is....."

:)

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Hi Burr,

Great looking ring, Well done!!


""" Does anyone know if 3dcoat can do this? """
""" I've searchred over there a bit and only found something related to bringing a poly model in to voxels... """

The feature your looking for is called "Reduction" & is available when your doing the Export.
This is what I'm currently testing & it appears to be working OK...I still need to test cut something though.



There's also something similar where you can "Clone & Degrade" the model to reduce it's mesh.
The Clone & Degrade feature was what I was previously using prior doing the Export.
The new Reduction feature mentioned above, has to a larger degree saved me having to use the Clone & Degrade.

regards Colin

Image Attachments:
V3.3 Reduction-Export.jpg 

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Hey Colin thanks. That sounds like what I was refering to. Actually the clone and degrade looks more like what ZBrush is doing with decimation. The zbrush one looks very powerful. There is much to learn about these as there is a bunch of stuff I am just unfamiliar with.

I'm going to loadup the demoes and start to poke around. At the very least, they look like they (either) will do the basis of what I'm after...I have to get in them though to know what my questions are...at this point, I'm not to up on what a UV map is as opposed to a Google Map!!! LOL (Just kidding)

We'll talk later...

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I'll probably be running into lot's of this:

"Where the H*** is the "Lower polycount button"!!!! LOL




(No need to answer. A good illustration of what MoI is trying to avoid!)


I think my last question will be regarding my termonolgy when I enter the 3dcoat/ZBrush forums.

Is this statement correct???

"I am interested in only the underlying mesh and the export of it. I am not interested in UV mapping, Textures ( I interpret this to mean "simulating bumps and such with bitmaps") and various rendering mechanisms..

I will then take this discussion to the appropriate apps forum. Thanks!

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Hi Burr,


> Is this statement correct???
>
> "I am interested in only the underlying mesh and the export of it.
> I am not interested in UV mapping, Textures ( I interpret this to
> mean "simulating bumps and such with bitmaps") and various
> rendering mechanisms..

Yes, that's correct - but you may want to specifically mention that you want to export to STL for physical model construction, that just helps to clarify what kind of stuff you are looking for even more.


Maybe something like:

"I am interested in only the underlying mesh and the export of it to STL for physical model construction. I am not interested in UV mapping, Textures and various rendering mechanisms.."


Texturing does involve applying bitmaps to objects - it can be used for simulating bumps but also for making areas of an object transparent, or also just putting colored patterns on things as well. But all texturing stuff is specific to rendering. There is not even any way within an STL file to have textures, an STL file is just a whole bunch of triangles and that's it.


- Michael

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Hi Burr, re: lower polycount

Isn't it obvious? You just need to hit the "Iso Parameterization Save Abstract Domain" a couple of times while holding down Alt + Scroll Lock. Then throw in a bit of "Quadric Edge Collapse Decimation (with texture)" for good measure.

;) ;) ;)

- Michael

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"""Isn't it obvious? """""""""""

OF COURSE!! Why didnt I think of that. Some people just like pain!!! :o

Thanks Michael.

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In a nutshell Zbrush is a very dense forest, filled with very clever tools but often implemented in a clunky way.
This along with countless procedures, settings, exceptions, prerequisites, etc.

If you manage sift out only the things you need and don't bother with all the rest of the stuff it's not so bad, but still not very easy at first.
No doubt that for organic modeling it's quite powerful.

Don't know much about 3dcoat though...

Marc

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Yeah ZB seems like the big daddy, but I'm sure I would have a hard time using it. Demoing 3dcoat right now. Both apps do the type of modeling I'm after, but for me it will be the STL output (Too bad NURBS cant do this). Mostly I was wrong in the begining. Most artists seem to want to "decimate" and lower the polycount. I need to have as smooth of a surface as I can get physically. Fooling around with setting the resolutions of the model and the output right now...

Seems like for the CNC work, I wont be trying to bring my CAD model entirely into 3dcoat and working, it just degrades too much stuff with no options. Probably use it to create surfaces that I can toolpath in place of some finish passes on my CAD data, to get organic stuff cut in "particular areas"...

We'll see.

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< Most artists seem to want to "decimate"
They don't want, they are obliged ;)
Except Zb and few other progs can't now manage such numbers of polygons :)
When you make animation you can't have these millions(billions) of polygons for make a render ;)
Same for make a Print 3D
etc...

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Hi Burr,

Not sure, but maybe this thread I'd started might help you in some way?

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3140.1

Something you can do within 3D-Coat with Voxels is a Boolean Difference" type of thing.
It's called "Subtract from"...it subtracts an object on one Layer from another Layer.
This means you can bring in your basic Primitive model shape, convert to Voxels & do the surface details.
Then you can "Subtract" other objects as needed before you finally Export it out as a STL for CAM use.

This was something I'd been playing with when making ring bases & needing to sculpt on the top of them once in 3DC.

HTH, Colin

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Hi Colin, looks like wrong link got into your post there, was this the one you wanted:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3140.1

I'll update your message with that link.

- Michael

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Hi Frenchy,
Yes I see. There are many situation that will want to limit that stuff!! I guess mine is the opposite!!! :o Thanks again.


Colin,
Thanks. Yes that is the same place I am at. Fooling around with it now and will use this thread you posted as reference..

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Hi Michael,

Thanks for fixing that.

regards Colin

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Aha, Success! I do believe that 3dcoat will do what i need. Exporting a finely diced STL was very staight forward and took no learning curve. Importing will take a little intro work to the app. got a basic result with little to know investigation. I will refine it with just a bit of classroom on my part.

Seems for me the hardest part is learning that it is in "Modes". Like "when does it stop being a mesh" and when to do the appropriate subdivision during import. Just a stage of the model and the 3dcoat terminology for actions....I could also just dice it up more with MoI also. Will do tests to check the size issues of the model with either way...

I've only got one initial complaint about the software and developer, but will use it anyway...

Thanks for the input on this!

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Hi BurrMan,

To give an impression on how voxels are implemented,take a look on the last three pictures of this article.

Sorry it is written in the Dutch language,but the pictures are pretty clear.

http://www.naarvoren.nl/artikel/3d/

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Hi Burr,

Looks like you've got a reasonable result, Congrats!!

I concur that it can be confusing to know when a 3DC command is complete because several of them don't have an "OK" button.
Best advice I can offer is once you see a change in the model, click on a Voxel button like the "Smooth"...
...that usually finishes the command as if you'd pressed an OK button...very confusing if you're coming from a CAD only background.

I'll keep a lookout for you over on the 3D-Coat Forum.

regards Colin

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you can have the article in English ;)
http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naarvoren.nl%2Fartikel%2F3d%2F&sl=nl&tl=en

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Hi Paolo,
Those pictures were a great example. Thanks!

And of course Frenchy with the knowhow to translate it for me..

Colin,
Yeah, same here with the "just hit another tool" to commit...But I will want to understand it properly. I'll see you in that forum, but after i figure out "at least how to use it".....Dont need to come in and ask "Whats a Vox Tree?" Is that where all the Vox's run to hide from the Vog's chasing them? LOL

See you in the funny papers!

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