Full Version: 3d coat vs zbrush

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Hi BurrMan,

The gear is made in Moi and exported as an .stl file.
3d-Coat fills this mesh up with voxels(3d Pixels).
The axle is a cylinder modeled with 3d-Coat which is considered a primitive shape.

The Rabbit is made with the use of a Wacom bamboo fun tablet(a must)
Then in the retopo room you can apply a mesh on top of the shape.
I personally use this mesh in T-Splines for Rhino,because it is much faster in this
way to model organic shapes.

3d-Coat is a great program,the only minus is the lack of good measuring tools.
It needs a lot of practice with a tablet
Example: importing an 100 mm sphere.stl in Rhino,needs to be scaled down.

Image Attachments:
GearAxle.JPG  Rabbit.JPG 

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Hi Burr, well fundamentally yes they are both sculpting programs that work in a generally similar way (applying brush strokes to modify objects) and producing similar kinds of output.

They are not clones of each other though, there are some various different specific functions in each one.

ZBrush has a somewhat unusual UI so you will probably have a higher learning curve with it.

If you're interested in the sculpting aspect you should definitely check out the new Sculptris program, it's free and is really easy to use. It's probably something that you would sculpt an object from scratch starting from a sphere or something within the program itself though, it's not as focused on modifying some already existing object that may contain sharp edges in it.


What is your overall goal, are you trying to sculpt some totally organic shape, or are you trying to add details to an existing model?

- Michael

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Thanks for all the info..Thanks frenchy for laying that out.

It kindof sounds like they are basically similar with regard to sculpting....

I have sculpturis. Great program. I was looking for a stepup though....

Michael,
I am interseted in the organic addition to some mechanical models. SO something like make a box with lid and then scribble around on the top of the lid. Create effects that would normally be just a bump map to render, but now actual "geometry" I can toolpath. 3D relief by hand so to speak. The 3d coat will most likely be my choice. It outputs the result as "STL" which my CAM package can import and toolpath. My CAM package doesnt work with OBJ and I dont want to have to start trying to convert poly's to NURBS.

(The next revolution: Sculptris for NURBS!!! Can you imagine seeing a car drive down the raod with warts and snakes all over it??? Buwahahaha!)

I suppose I should load the demo, but I think I read that the demos dont save anything. Can these packages control the poly dicing the way that MoI Can? or is the STL going to be basic faceted. (Most likely will just need to learn how to dice it up with the program)...Thats probably the main aspect of my purchase with it....If the STL wil be a good result for machining. I've seen an STL produce good results from Shapeways with my MoI model, but....Thats MoI and a different process of printing...

SO a question would be: If I make a nice NURBS model in MoI, then add some texture to one of the surfaces in 3dcoat and export as stl, what is the quality, or do I have control of the quality of the resulting stl surface as a michinable surface trying to replicate smooth stuff...

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@Burr
Limitations of the 3D-Coat demo version:
-all export functions are disabled
-limitation on quantity of layers per object, maximum 7 layers allowed
-maximum texture size is 2048x2048

but!!!...
Demo version is fully functional during 30 days !!!
http://www.3d-coat.com/download/

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Hi Burr,

> Can these packages control the poly dicing the way that MoI Can?

In some cases you are working directly with polygons, so you have a really high density polygon soup that then has the polygons modified.

3D Coat's voxel editing mode does have something where you convert from voxels to sub-d surfaces I think, and then you can probably adjust the density of the final output polygons created from the sub-d smoothing process.


> SO a question would be: If I make a nice NURBS model in MoI, then
> add some texture to one of the surfaces in 3dcoat and export as stl,
> what is the quality, or do I have control of the quality of the resulting
> stl surface as a michinable surface trying to replicate smooth stuff...

Well, the whole purpose of these sculpting programs is to produce an organic looking shape, and organic objects are made up of smooth looking surfaces. So they generally have a focus in them for dicing up polygons to make enough of them so that things look like they are smooth.


From what you described you would probably want to go with 3D-Coat.


- Michael

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Thanks Frenchy and Michael.....:)

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Hi Burr,

By the sounds of things, what your wanting to do is not dissimilar to what I'm doing with jewellery models.

I bought 3D-Coat for the same reasons as you describe, but I'm still learning what's the best workflow with it.
Typically I've been exporting from MoI as an OBJ file & then importing it into 3DC within the Voxel Room.
This converts the OBJ into a Voxel & you can do what ever sculpting you want from there.

The newer versions of 3D-Coat now allow you to reduce the mesh when your doing the Export.
In my case this proved to be essential as my CAM program for milling had a limit to what the model size could be.

I'm also now using Sculptris & think of it in a similar way to how I see MoI...
...it's got a simple UI that allows you to just be creative.
And the Sculptris models will import just fine into the 3DC Voxel Room too.

HTH, Colin

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The reduction of polygons in Zbrush ;) video
http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/tutorial.php?lesson=decimation-master

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Cool Colin,
That makes me more comfortable....

Here's a ring we cut on our 4th axis. I need to be able to make better geometry for the artwork. Our CAM package is a "wrapping type" so I have to make this stuff flat... I think the 3DCoat package is going to help us make a better/cleaner design.

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And with free tools like Meshlab you can works on the mesh ;) the Mesh doctor :)
Repair, decimate etc...
http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/

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Hey Burr,

Cant remember where I saw this, and I've never used it, and I know you dont need it... (lolz, kind of makes me wonder why i am typing this :D ) but this has always looked interesting to me. http://www.cncwrapper.com/ Looks like one could get a cheap 3 axis toolpathing program and get to 4th axis the hard way with it... but for $20, thats a pretty cool option.

-Nick

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Pilou,
That is a very cool tool and power in ZBrush. Does anyone know if 3dcoat can do this? I've searchred over there a bit and only found something related to bringing a poly model in to voxels...

I dont want to flood the MoI forum either with "how to use 3dcoat", but just looking at advice on which app will be best in the longrun.

Maybe I just need to know what to search for in 3dcoat.

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LOL Nick!!!

cncwrapper.com =

"yo yo hip.....word up now.....(spit,spiff,p-poof pah, spit.....spit,spiff,p-poof pah, spit)
my name is....."

:)

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Hi Burr,

Great looking ring, Well done!!


""" Does anyone know if 3dcoat can do this? """
""" I've searchred over there a bit and only found something related to bringing a poly model in to voxels... """

The feature your looking for is called "Reduction" & is available when your doing the Export.
This is what I'm currently testing & it appears to be working OK...I still need to test cut something though.



There's also something similar where you can "Clone & Degrade" the model to reduce it's mesh.
The Clone & Degrade feature was what I was previously using prior doing the Export.
The new Reduction feature mentioned above, has to a larger degree saved me having to use the Clone & Degrade.

regards Colin

Image Attachments:
V3.3 Reduction-Export.jpg 

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Hey Colin thanks. That sounds like what I was refering to. Actually the clone and degrade looks more like what ZBrush is doing with decimation. The zbrush one looks very powerful. There is much to learn about these as there is a bunch of stuff I am just unfamiliar with.

I'm going to loadup the demoes and start to poke around. At the very least, they look like they (either) will do the basis of what I'm after...I have to get in them though to know what my questions are...at this point, I'm not to up on what a UV map is as opposed to a Google Map!!! LOL (Just kidding)

We'll talk later...

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I'll probably be running into lot's of this:

"Where the H*** is the "Lower polycount button"!!!! LOL




(No need to answer. A good illustration of what MoI is trying to avoid!)


I think my last question will be regarding my termonolgy when I enter the 3dcoat/ZBrush forums.

Is this statement correct???

"I am interested in only the underlying mesh and the export of it. I am not interested in UV mapping, Textures ( I interpret this to mean "simulating bumps and such with bitmaps") and various rendering mechanisms..

I will then take this discussion to the appropriate apps forum. Thanks!

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Hi Burr,


> Is this statement correct???
>
> "I am interested in only the underlying mesh and the export of it.
> I am not interested in UV mapping, Textures ( I interpret this to
> mean "simulating bumps and such with bitmaps") and various
> rendering mechanisms..

Yes, that's correct - but you may want to specifically mention that you want to export to STL for physical model construction, that just helps to clarify what kind of stuff you are looking for even more.


Maybe something like:

"I am interested in only the underlying mesh and the export of it to STL for physical model construction. I am not interested in UV mapping, Textures and various rendering mechanisms.."


Texturing does involve applying bitmaps to objects - it can be used for simulating bumps but also for making areas of an object transparent, or also just putting colored patterns on things as well. But all texturing stuff is specific to rendering. There is not even any way within an STL file to have textures, an STL file is just a whole bunch of triangles and that's it.


- Michael

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Hi Burr, re: lower polycount

Isn't it obvious? You just need to hit the "Iso Parameterization Save Abstract Domain" a couple of times while holding down Alt + Scroll Lock. Then throw in a bit of "Quadric Edge Collapse Decimation (with texture)" for good measure.

;) ;) ;)

- Michael

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"""Isn't it obvious? """""""""""

OF COURSE!! Why didnt I think of that. Some people just like pain!!! :o

Thanks Michael.

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In a nutshell Zbrush is a very dense forest, filled with very clever tools but often implemented in a clunky way.
This along with countless procedures, settings, exceptions, prerequisites, etc.

If you manage sift out only the things you need and don't bother with all the rest of the stuff it's not so bad, but still not very easy at first.
No doubt that for organic modeling it's quite powerful.

Don't know much about 3dcoat though...

Marc

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