MoI discussion forum
MoI discussion forum

Full Version: can not create a solid because of naked edges

From: Ironice
5 Feb 2023   [#1]
Hi Michael,
dont know how can i fix this. It looks sooo simple but cant create a solid from this construction.
Can you help please?

1. i have 2 curve for a sweep operation.
2. After sweep the naked edges are only at the opened side. That ok.
3. If i select the naked edges and make a planar then join all of them i get only a joined surface.

How can i get it solid ?

Thanks













Attachments:
temp_sweep.3dm

Image Attachments:
01.jpg  02.jpg  03.jpg  04.jpg 


From: Ironice
5 Feb 2023   [#2] In reply to [#1]
I have found the error.

have scaled all points of the line to "0".
there must have been a deviation of 0.0000001 somewhere :)
Now I have a solid.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
From: Ironice
5 Feb 2023   [#3] In reply to [#2]
happy too soon :(

still need your help.
does not always work.

This one is not working.

Attachments:
temp_sweep_2.3dm

Image Attachments:
05.jpg 


From: Jfs (PAQUICINNO)
5 Feb 2023   [#4] In reply to [#3]
Hi ironice, first scaled the model by 100. Then duplicate the rail on the other end of the profile. Sweep the profile with one rail, make two surfaces with the two rails, then join the three surfaces.

Attachments:
temp_sweep-solid3.3dm


From: Ironice
5 Feb 2023   [#5] In reply to [#3]
if i import the line from adobe illustrator it works. :/

MOI drawing is much cleaner but not working.





Image Attachments:
06.jpg  07.jpg 


From: Ironice
5 Feb 2023   [#6] In reply to [#5]
After sweeping MOI line has 48 naked edges.
Sweeped illustrator line has only 2 naked edges.







Image Attachments:
08.jpg  09.jpg 


From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
5 Feb 2023   [#7]
Maybe put your profil on the curve?
And take No Unity system?
From: Michael Gibson
5 Feb 2023   [#8] In reply to [#3]
Hi Ironice,

re:
> still need your help.
> does not always work.
>
> This one is not working.

It looks like some kind of bug in Join, maybe something related to the combination of a larger size for the path versus profile.

If you scale everything down by 1/10 in size it then seems to work ok.

To do that, select both your curves, run the Transform > Scale command. At the first prompt for the scale origin point type 0 and push Enter to use 0,0,0 as the scale origin. Then type 0.1 and push Enter for the scale factor.

Then do the sweep on those scaled curves and then Planar and it should make a solid ok, I've attached a version where I've done that.

I'll see if I can figure out why they won't join well at their initial size.

- Michael

Attachments:
temp_sweep_2_solid_3dm.zip


From: BurrMan
5 Feb 2023   [#9] In reply to [#8]
The little fillets in the sweep path all have a very tiny deviation from tangent, so the mitering sweep kicks in and makes little bad surfaces all over.

I corrected the tangencies and the 2 palnars join to a solid good.

I can make a video of fixing it if anyone wants to see that. I did most of it with the line tool checking point tangencies. I could get them all except for 4 of the top (Y direction) fillets. So I separated and deleted those and used blend to fill back in...

I left a little sphere in this file where to look on the original files sweep to see the bad geometry (Just one obvious one) In case you wanted to see the original problem.

Anyway...

Attachments:
temp_sweep_2_Mod.3dm


From: Phiro
5 Feb 2023   [#10]
Hi,

I test another solution.
Using seamless script on profile and on sweep curve.

Next the process is the same : sweep and two plannar surfaces. Joining the 3 surfaces gives a solid.

Less edges, less problems...
From: Ironice
6 Feb 2023   [#11] In reply to [#10]
Hi Phiro,

where can i find the seamless script ?
From: Ironice
6 Feb 2023   [#12] In reply to [#9]
Hi BurMan,

deleted all ARCs and used blend for the connection.
The result ist the same... 48 naked edges and a joint surface.
Did not understand what you mean with the little sphere.

Can you make a video please?

Thank you very much

Image Attachments:
10.jpg  11.jpg  12.jpg 


From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
6 Feb 2023   [#13] In reply to [#11]
<< seemsless script:
https://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=8388.35
and following posts for see what it is exactly! ;)

Blend (click extremity to extremity one by one) & Join the curves before launch it!

From: BurrMan
6 Feb 2023   [#14] In reply to [#12]
Hey Iron,
Sure! Here you go...



I think in the video I thought I had an AHA moment with things not all being on the same plane. AS an afterthought, I think I had the SPHERE selected in there, so it was erroneous thought.

Anyway, the video shows how i checked it and also how I fixed it. Its more for understanding.

As someone else pointed out, simply rebuilding the path (In a way that removes the Kinks) would probably fix it. but really you want to take a look at your methods and not create this type of geometry to begin with....

Onward!
From: Ironice
8 Feb 2023   [#15] In reply to [#14]
Hi BurrMan,

looks like a lot of work.
Thank you very much for the detailed demonstration.

helps a lot.
From: BurrMan
8 Feb 2023   [#16] In reply to [#15]
“””””” looks like a lot of work.””””””

Not really. The video is about 15 minutes and add a couple to get it uploaded.

If i was just doing the “work”, i would launch the move tool and pound it out with construction lines.

Maybe 1 minute 30 seconds of work.
From: Specktech
13 Feb 2023   [#17]
So interesting how you fixed this model. Amazes me how such small errors in the geometry can cause these problems.
Thanks so much for making this video BurrMan. Many times I will be creating some really complicated organic shape. And I know I am probably dealing with these same kinds of errors.
Many times I struggle to get certain models to turn into a solid. So I usually just try it some different way. Till I get it. But actually seeing these micro errors is so valuable. Going to try your technique. Thanks Man.
From: BurrMan
14 Feb 2023   [#18] In reply to [#17]
Hey speck,

“”””””” Many times I will be creating some really complicated organic shape. And I know I am probably dealing with these same kinds of errors”””””””

Be careful about leading yourself into futility. I would do this in cases where i can easily determine “this should work”…. Moreso than “this doesnt work”….

For instance. A simple square with some fillets. (Kind of like this particular model)

If you have a very complex shape, organic etc. it may be difficult to use this to find errors.

So the first step was finding the bad surfaces. Then determine how/why those are bad and reverse that… that is the better takeaway than “check for tangencies” so to speak.

Just a heads up

Glad it helped though. You’re welcome.