Full Version: V5 Wish List

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Hi micheal

How long will we have to wait to see a set of Sub-d modeling tools in Moi? .... I was deciding to buy a polygon modeler but at this point I'm waiting for Moi with sub-D :)

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Hi Tony, I expect it will be quite a while before a lot of direct Sub-d modeling tools are available in MoI. When they start out they will be focused on pretty light duty simple shaping. I don't expect that they will be a replacement for a dedicated poly modeler anytime soon.

The SubD converter that is in MoI version 4 should enable you to have a good workflow using a separate dedicated poly modeling program to construct the SubD control cage and then importing that into MoI.

So if you want to do some sub-d modeling I recommend to go with a dedicated modeling program for that now.

- Michael

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Michael, i would like to know which polygonal modeler at this time being that most 'similar/compatible' with MoI's spirit?

Sorry my English.

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Hi Elang, a few ones you could try:

https://www.rocket3f.com/
https://www.nevercenter.com/silo/
http://www.wings3d.com/
https://metaseq.net/en/index.html

These ones are all focused just on modeling similar to MoI. There are a lot of other ones that are part of a larger package doing animation and rendering also but they will be more complicated (and usually more expensive except Blender) since they have a lot more stuff in them.

- Michael

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1) Analysis tools for curves, surfaces, objects build from many surfaces.
2) More easy way to search for naked edges and other errors.

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Circular selection tool

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Hi Michael,

first let me say congrats for the release of v4 and the new site design!

If possible, I would like to see in v5 zebra stripes analysis for continuity
and a crease edge function for the subd importer, if this can be somehow
solved. And yes, a grouping mechanism in the parts list.

Best regards
Stefan

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I would like to have a simple material editor and a better objekt manager.

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Hi, Michael.
We all want something here, but what's your plan?
When is the next version expected?
What will be the changes?
Or will there be a break for analysis?

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Hi WN,

> Hi, Michael.
> We all want something here, but what's your plan?
> When is the next version expected?
> What will be the changes?
> Or will there be a break for analysis?

I don't have any detailed plan as of yet.

- Michael

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1. waiting for a long time - fillet, chamfer
2 . better selection (lasso, hotkeys for 1,2,3,4,5: switch modes: blender approach is great 1,2,3 for poly, tab - object mode)
3. ogl improvements: reflections, mb other shaders, lines that are closed together ~ that makes buggy view, mb glass with transparancy
4. Bézier and better curve manipulation - SAI as example
5. Hotkeys: scroll up and down (adjusting radius: as designer i don't need to be precise)
6. scripting : points
7. instances

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Hi,
- a Pivot tool like in polymodeling software would be verry helpfull.
The gizmo in Zbrush works verry nice and is simple to use.
- Some of the addons or plug ins that are around should be integrated in Moi.
this might be not so exiting but usefull. Because many especially new user dont know much about them and how to install them.
It took me quite a while to find some of them.

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Apart from the fact that class A surfacing is a black art, it isn't a magical thing that the tools do for you. Even Alias with it's tons of surfacing tools requires a tremendous amount of effort from the user to help the software do its thing. I don't thing this should be an area that MoI should be focused at. OK, maybe some diagnostic shading/materials and a bit more robust fillet/blending tools are welcome.

On the other hand I believe that MoI lacks a proper industry standard layer system which will help with organization, selection and geometry visualization. It kinda works as it is with the styles, but I really wish there was a treeview control with drag & drop support and the concept of an "active" layer. In fact I experimented by using some javascript treeview widgets and treated styles as layers, but I ended-up abandoning my effort because it was a hacky way and nowhere near as robust as I'd wanted it to be.

The other thing would be more of MoI's internals exposed to scripting and proper documentation for it. The community has already done wonders with so little to work with. It's what every major software has done because it allows anyone to have a custom workflow, it lets you do any non-standard stuff you can imagine, and frees the developer from having to fulfill every little request. Not to mention that a powerful API will attract even more knowledgeable people to do even more complex plugins.

My 2c.

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Hi immortalx, there is a concept of "Active style" in MoI, it's the one that has the ring around its color swatch, right-click on a swatch to set it:



- Michael

Image Attachments:
activestyle.jpg 

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I know about that Michael! In fact that's what I used to programmatically set the active layer I was talking about. The thing is that MoI doesn't have the concept of completely hiding a specific style. I mean if you hide objects that have the orange style for example, and then generate a new object with that style, the last object would be visible. It doesn't align with the concept of a layer where everything in a layer can only be hidden or not.
Take for example Photoshop, where you're not allowed to draw on a hidden layer. That's what I attempted to do with scripting, but this thing was a show-stopper.

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Hi immortalx, yes MoI's styles are specifically designed to behave like that instead of how traditional layers behave. That's why I avoided using the term "Layer" there.

The big problem with traditional layers where the layer itself has its own on/off property is that it greatly restricts flexibility. You can no longer show just an individual object you have to show the layer and all other objects on it then get shown too.

That's a big limitation that I didn't want to repeat with MoI. In MoI it's individual objects that have a hide/show state, not the Style/Layer itself. The Scene browser lets you manipulate a set of objects with one scene browser item but you can use different types of sets in combination with each other, like "hide all curves" (Types section), "Show just the object named X" (Objects section), in addition to Show objects with Style=Red (Styles section). You can't do that with traditional layers.

> I mean if you hide objects that have the orange style for example, and then
> generate a new object with that style, the last object would be visible.

MoI back in version 2 used to emulate layer behavior a little more closely and would hide an object assigned to a style (by swatch click) where all of the other objects there are currently hidden. That changed in v3 to not do that anymore, I don't remember the specifics of why right now I'll have to review it.

... actually now that I have looked into it, that appears to be a bug that crept in when the selection dot was added in v3, not an intentional change. I'll see about restoring that behavior in v5.

- Michael

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Thanks for the reply Michael.

"The big problem with traditional layers where the layer itself has its own on/off property is that it greatly restricts flexibility. You can no longer show just an individual object you have to show the layer and all other objects on it then get shown too."

This has already been solved in most applications using nested layers.
In Blender for example the equivalent of layers are collections. You can have a collection with multiple objects, that you can individually show/hide, or show/hide the entire collection. Moreover, you can show/hide a single object's sub-geometry. And of course you can move objects between collections, or have multiple collections nested under another collection.
As you see, it adds tremendous flexibility for organization/selection/viewing, not to mention that it's the industry standard way for complex applications, and one that most people are familiar with.

All of that could work in conjunction with MoI's "types" concept, but with respect to the "active" layer. I'm not saying it's straightforward or easy to implement, but I'm sure that if you give it some thought it could turn out to be a very powerful feature.

Anyways, it's just a suggestion. Keep up the good work!

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Hi immortalx, nested layers are helpful in other ways but they still don't give as much flexibility. You can't do "Show all curves" regardless of layers with nested layers for example. They also require more complexity to set up, it's much simpler if you want to deal with one particular object to be able to tag it with a name and be able to target that name regardless of layer assignment or layer structure as well.

For more complex cases where you're planning things out a lot the nesting is definitely useful though and I do plan on adding in some hierarchy into MoI's scene browser interface as well.

But I wanted to be quite careful to not repeat the problems with traditional layers.

The flexibility of MoI's system extends outside of the scene browser as well because simple Edit > Hide co-exists well with this system. Like for example, you can use Ctrl + Edit > Hide to do a "Show subset", that allows you to select any object to make visible, again regardless of what layer it is on and not having side effects of other objects showing because they were on the same layer.

It's overall a much more flexible system. Once hierarchy is introduced that should help with some other more complex cases. The focus for MoI has been to make simple things work well first before worrying too much about complicated things.

- Michael

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I can show you a "sneak peek" here of something I've got working for v5 which are additional sub-type options in the "Types" section of the scene browser:





This is only possible because of not going down the limited path of traditional layers where the layer owns the control of visibility.

- Michael

Image Attachments:
scene_browser_sub_types1.jpg  scene_browser_sub_types2.jpg 

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Thanks for the sneak-peek, that's pretty awesome!

Well I don't want to be stubborn regarding the layers thing :p It's just a personal opinion that it's a better paradigm that it's widely used. Also I explained above why there are no side effects from showing/hiding an object. It can reside in it's own layer and together with other objects have it nested in a higher in hierarchy layer. Thus you could hide/unhide it without affecting other objects.
Anyways, the new thing you've been working on seems like it adds some great functionality!

Here's a screenshot of the thing I've been working on. Ignore the gazillion buttons in the browser pane, they were there for development :p

Image Attachments:
layers.jpg 

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