Full Version: V4 beta Oct-17-2018 available now - SubD to NURBS conversion

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This is a much needed tool in the industry when it comes to helping the VFX world communicate with the CAD world. There are a few tools on the market but most are at the higher end of the $$ so it's nice to see that MoI is bringing this out.

Two questions

First - The option to "predetermine" edges from the quad mesh to the NURBS geometry. So this wouldn't be edges weighting as much as it is selecting a quad patch and designating it for the boundaries edge. This would make for the downstream CAD application to have a "better" edge to start from (HA see what I did there). The general quilted patch, while very much a huge step over working with a mesh, is not giving the topology flow that say if you're looking to create a parting line from. Having the ability to basically set that up with the quad mesh just gives that next level of push towards the down stream CAD application. See image below. Shown on the left is the CAD model converted without the quads in the SubD model being selected, the middle shows the selected quads that then become hard edges in the NURBS model shown in the CAD software on the right.




Second - Along the possible workflow of the above being able to have the ability to paint the quads in such a way in areas that during the conversion process it will use smaller patches and say larger patches where it's not painted. There are times when an very evenly spaced NURBS quilt is needed but the possible option to select where a more dense level of detail is needed would be great to have.

Image Attachments:
SubD to NURBS.JPG 

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Hi Arthur, for v4 the focus is just on getting the overall shape converted over reliably. It could be possible in the future to add what you are describing though, maybe having the surface combining part pay attention to material assignments could be a practical way to do that. Like large patches would only be combined with faces belonging to the same material assignment.

Would that cover the type of thing you're asking about or is it more detailed than that?

- Michael

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Is edge weighting support planned? Right now I use Fusion 360 almost exclusively for converting Sub-d to nurbs. My subscription ends soon and I would much rather put that money towards MOI than another year of Fusion or the Modo Sub-D to Nurbs plugin.

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Hi Chris, sorry edge weighting support is not planned for the MoI v4 time frame. There is no mechanism in .obj files to control edge weighting as far as I know.

It may be possible in a future release when there are more functions exposed.

- Michael

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Okay, I didnt realize you were using obj as the format for importing polygons. Maybe selecting edges inside of moi and defining them as sharp before conversion could be a solution? Right now in fusion I need to redo any edge weights after import as the fbx implementation in it doesnt seem to support edge weights.

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Hi Michael and Chris,

interesting thought about .fbx! I just checked with Silo and it's .fbx exporter saves the creases too,
when reloading the model into Silo and applying a subdivision. Could not check which .fbx version
is used, because Silo saves in binary mode. Maybe the .fbx route, when parsing the file for creases,
could be easier to implement instead of implementing additional modeling tools in MoI. And i think
an inexpensive combo like MoI and Silo would be pretty awesome, when it comes to subd to NURBS
workflows, compared to way more expensive modeling tools.

Regards
Stefan

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Hi Michael...yes this is exactly what I think would help in terms of bridging the file conversion process even closer. I think where things are for what MoI brings to the table is great. I'm going to email a PDF that I did a while back as part of a presentation that I used MoI as part of the side by side of several 3D software comparison of converting a mesh to a SubD or NURBS geometry but now want to run this new aspect to see where things land.

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I just tried to insert/import a pdf file into MoI 4 and had no luck. Nothing happened. (In Rhino it said there was no information)
I convert the file from pdf to jpg and had no trouble bringing it into MoI as an image.
Can anyone tell me why the pdf import did not work?
thanks,
eric

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To determine the creased edges you could use the information of sharp edges on OBJ to create surfaces with sharp edges, or do it in two steps, ie import and choose edges that need to be sharpened, if you can implement this possibility I think it will be a thing much appreciated by many and as you can see the interest is increasing. I am available to provide some test object if necessary.

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Hi pafurijaz,

> To determine the creased edges you could use the information of sharp edges on OBJ to create surfaces with sharp edges

I must admit that i have never seen an app supporting edges in .obj files, if i understand you correctly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavefront_.obj_file

Regards
Stefan

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<< Can anyone tell me why the pdf import did not work?

this PDF was an "image" file or a file "2D / 3D" ?

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Hi eric,

re:
> I just tried to insert/import a pdf file into MoI 4 and had no luck. Nothing happened. (In Rhino it said there was no information)
> I convert the file from pdf to jpg and had no trouble bringing it into MoI as an image.
> Can anyone tell me why the pdf import did not work?

It's likely to be that the pdf file only contains bitmap image data in it and not vector drawing data.

When you open the pdf in Adobe viewer, if you zoom into areas does the display stay crisp like a vector drawing does, or do you see it getting blocky because it's made of pixels?

MoI and Rhino both only try to read vector drawing data out of a PDF file.

If there is no vector data in the file then converting it to a PNG or JPG image and bringing that in as a background image would be the way to go.

- Michael

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Hi pafurijaz, yes if you could post an example .obj file that gives you sharp edges when smoothed in a polygon modeling program that would be helpful.

- Michael

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Hi Chris,

> Okay, I didnt realize you were using obj as the format for importing polygons. Maybe
> selecting edges inside of moi and defining them as sharp before conversion could be a solution?

There is not currently any mechanism in MoI for working with polygon data in that way. That could be a possible solution in the future but I don't expect to have that for the MoI v4 timeframe, sorry.


> Right now in fusion I need to redo any edge weights after import as the fbx implementation in it doesnt seem to support edge weights.

Do you have any example fbx files that contain edge weight information? That could be a possibility in the future.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

just tested Wings3D .obj importer/exporter and surprisingly it contains hard edges information
in the .obj file. Unfortunately no other apps i tested understand those informations from Wings
3D.

I have also tested ZBrush's ZModeler which allows creasing and saved as various .fbx.
When reloading those .fbx files with creased edges into ZBrush the crease info is still
there but Silo don't understand the crease information, while loading the model fine.

So it seems with Wings 3D .obj it is only supported by Wings and .fbx crease informations
vary also between apps. I thought that at least .fbx would be compatible with creases
among various app. Maybe higher priced apps like Max, Maya etc. retain those infos with
ZBrush model exchange.

here' is also the .obj data and .mtl data from Wings3D:

# Exported from Wings 3D 2.1.5
mtllib testwings.mtl
o Scene.obj
#38 vertices, 32 faces
v -64.81151600 100.00000000 -37.81118400
v 64.81151600 100.00000000 -37.81118400
v -64.81151600 100.00000000 37.81118400
v 64.81151600 100.00000000 37.81118400
v 64.81151600 90.50128200 -37.81118400
v -64.81151600 91.21183800 -37.81118400
v 64.81151600 89.79074100 37.81118400
v -64.81151600 90.50128200 37.81118400
v 0.0000000e+0 121.31646700 -37.81118400
v 0.0000000e+0 121.31646700 37.81118400
v 0.0000000e+0 50.00000000 -37.81118400
v 0.0000000e+0 50.00000000 37.81118400
v 64.81151600 90.50128200 -37.81118400
v -64.81151600 91.21183800 -37.81118400
v 64.81151600 89.79074100 37.81118400
v -64.81151600 90.50128200 37.81118400
v 0.0000000e+0 50.00000000 -37.81118400
v 0.0000000e+0 50.00000000 37.81118400
v 79.07005300 94.87825800 -46.12964600
v -79.07005300 95.74514000 -46.12964600
v 79.07005300 94.01139800 46.12964600
v -79.07005300 94.87826500 46.12964600
v 0.0000000e+0 45.46669800 -46.12964600
v 0.0000000e+0 45.46669800 46.12964600
v 79.86074800 84.64553800 -46.59094200
v -79.86074800 85.52109500 -46.59094200
v 79.86074800 83.77001200 46.59094200
v -79.86074800 84.64555400 46.59094200
v 0.0000000e+0 34.73986800 -46.59094200
v 0.0000000e+0 34.73986800 46.59094200
v 89.04035200 101.26355000 -46.12241000
v 89.04035200 100.39668300 46.13688300
v 89.83104700 90.15530400 46.59817900
v 89.83104700 91.03083000 -46.58370600
v -89.04030600 101.26421400 46.13689000
v -89.83099400 91.03149400 46.59818300
v -89.04030600 102.13108100 -46.12240600
v -89.83099400 91.90703600 -46.58370200
vt 0.0000000e+0 0.0000000e+0
vt 4.9500000e-3 4.9500000e-3
vt 4.9500000e-3 0.99504900
vt 0.50000000 4.9500000e-3
vt 0.50000000 0.99504900
vt 0.99504900 4.9500000e-3
vt 0.99504900 0.99504900
vn 0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 -0.70710678
vn -0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 -0.70710678
vn 0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 0.70710678
vn -0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 0.70710678
vn 0.0000000e+0 0.0000000e+0 -1.00000000
vn 0.0000000e+0 0.0000000e+0 1.00000000
vn -0.39778100 0.89261383 -0.21215757
vn 0.40592154 0.88916570 -0.21121566
vn -0.39349896 0.89216266 0.22182054
vn 0.40167236 0.88875228 0.22085903
vn 3.6844692e-3 0.87806878 -0.47852027
vn 3.7144518e-3 0.87806871 0.47852015
vn -0.35580007 0.69330414 -0.62668627
vn 0.36006189 0.69160005 -0.62613481
vn -0.35226703 0.69004393 0.63225573
vn 0.35652884 0.68836134 0.63170076
vn 2.1179827e-3 0.49671650 -0.86791027
vn 2.1381601e-3 0.49770315 0.86734480
vn -2.6811362e-2 4.2950920e-2 -0.99871736
vn 2.7058927e-2 4.2967881e-2 -0.99870996
vn -2.7255302e-2 4.2879902e-2 0.99870840
vn 2.7503230e-2 4.2896666e-2 0.99870088
vn 2.3535063e-4 4.2964236e-2 -0.99907658
vn 2.3535257e-4 4.2964241e-2 0.99907658
vn 0.29798612 0.66521822 -0.68460864
vn 0.29473133 0.65993493 0.69110009
vn 0.69349349 8.5762380e-2 0.71534019
vn 0.69449421 8.5867973e-2 -0.71435599
vn -0.29467726 0.65997286 0.69108693
vn -0.69347861 8.5833549e-2 0.71534608
vn -0.29793206 0.66525660 -0.68459488
vn -0.69448002 8.5939444e-2 -0.71436119
vn -0.31243445 0.94993932 0.0000000e+0
vn -0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 -0.70710678
vn -0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 -0.70710678
vn 0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 -0.70710678
vn 0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 -0.70710678
vn 0.31243445 0.94993932 0.0000000e+0
vn -0.31243445 0.94993932 0.0000000e+0
vn -0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 0.70710678
vn -0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 0.70710678
vn 0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 0.70710678
vn 0.70710678 0.0000000e+0 0.70710678
vn 0.31243445 0.94993932 0.0000000e+0
vn 0.0000000e+0 0.0000000e+0 -1.00000000
vn -0.31243445 0.94993932 0.0000000e+0
vn 0.0000000e+0 0.0000000e+0 -1.00000000
vn 0.31243445 0.94993932 0.0000000e+0
vn -0.31243445 0.94993932 0.0000000e+0
vn 0.0000000e+0 0.0000000e+0 1.00000000
vn 0.31243445 0.94993932 0.0000000e+0
vn 0.0000000e+0 0.0000000e+0 1.00000000
g Scene.obj_default
usemtl default
s 1
f 3/2/39 10/4/49 9/5/46 1/3/33
s 2
f 2/7/38 9/5/48 10/4/51 4/6/44
s 3
f 1/3/34 6/3/2 8/2/4 3/2/40
f 1/3/35 9/5/47 11/5/5 6/3/2
f 4/6/42 7/6/3 5/7/1 2/7/37
f 4/6/43 10/4/50 12/4/6 7/6/3
f 5/7/1 11/5/5 9/5/45 2/7/36
f 5/1/1 13/1/7 17/1/11 11/1/5
f 6/1/2 14/1/8 16/1/10 8/1/4
f 7/1/3 15/1/9 13/1/7 5/1/1
f 8/2/4 12/4/6 10/4/52 3/2/41
f 8/1/4 16/1/10 18/1/12 12/1/6
f 11/1/5 17/1/11 14/1/8 6/1/2
f 12/1/6 18/1/12 15/1/9 7/1/3
f 13/1/7 19/1/13 23/1/17 17/1/11
f 14/1/8 20/1/14 22/1/16 16/1/10
f 15/1/9 21/1/15 19/1/13 13/1/7
f 16/1/10 22/1/16 24/1/18 18/1/12
f 17/1/11 23/1/17 20/1/14 14/1/8
f 18/1/12 24/1/18 21/1/15 15/1/9
f 19/1/13 25/1/19 29/1/23 23/1/17
f 19/1/13 31/1/25 34/1/28 25/1/19
f 20/1/14 37/1/31 35/1/29 22/1/16
f 21/1/15 32/1/26 31/1/25 19/1/13
f 22/1/16 28/1/22 30/1/24 24/1/18
f 22/1/16 35/1/29 36/1/30 28/1/22
f 23/1/17 29/1/23 26/1/20 20/1/14
f 24/1/18 30/1/24 27/1/21 21/1/15
f 26/1/20 38/1/32 37/1/31 20/1/14
f 27/1/21 33/1/27 32/1/26 21/1/15
f 32/1/26 33/1/27 34/1/28 31/1/25
f 35/1/29 37/1/31 38/1/32 36/1/30

and the .mtl file:

# Exported from Wings 3D 2.1.5
newmtl default
Ns 0.0
d 1.0
illum 2
Kd 1.0 1.0 1.0
Ka 1.0 1.0 1.0
Ks 0.0 0.0 0.0
Ke 0.0 0.0 0.0

Best regards
Stefan

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Hi Stefan, thanks for testing that. So it looks like Wings3D is using the "s" statements for that?

Officially the s statements are used for setting "smoothing groups" but it's not referring to sub-d smoothing, it's for handling vertex normal generation where only polygons from the same smoothing group will be used for averaging vertex normals. That's for "smooth shading" control, not sub-d smoothing control.

The .obj file format predates the use of sub-d smoothing and so doesn't really have sub-d specific functions in it.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

well, i have no answer for this, but only see that it works with Wings3D...

Regards
Stefan

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Hi Michael ...
That must be the problem ... the pdf image starts to fuzz out at about 800% zoom. The pdf file was created by a scan. Could it have been saved as a vector file at that time? How?
In any event converting it to a jpg file worked well enough.
thanks,
eric

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Hi eric, usually a scan only generates bitmap image data and not things like line segment vector data.

There are some kinds of converter programs though that can convert it though. Another name for bitmap data is "raster data" and these kinds of converter programs are often referred to as Raster to Vector converters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_raster-to-vector_conversion_software
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_tracing

- Michael

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