Full Version: V4 beta Oct-17-2018 available now - SubD to NURBS conversion

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The frenchstrings.txt ;)

http://moiscript.weebly.com/uploads/3/9/3/8/3938813/frenchstrings.txt

does this new import/export OBJ replace all the previous ? Your, the _import Obj by Max Smirnov...

French Site and Forum updated! ;)
http://moiscript.weebly.com

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Simply amazing Michael, thank you so much for this feature !

@mkdm,
Do you realize you get the best sub-d to nurbs technology here ? the surface continuity quality is above anything else on the market :O)

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@ You : "..Do you realize ?..."


ABSOLUTELY YES!!

In fact I was the first to congratulate Michael for this new feature! :) :) :)

And my latest request are only for ask more freedon about the "degree of smoothness" for the next beta, like Max's did in his plugin.

Michael has added a wonderful feature.

Very promising!


For @Pilou:
I think tha actually the _importObj plug in is still NECESSARY, because thanks to it we can translate the imported obj into a flat planes polysurfaces nurbs


Maybe in the next versions of builtin subDiv we will have also the chance to do a "rough" import of the obj, without any subdivision.

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Hi Michael,

looks fantastic! However i have problems with my very old iMac and my very
small graphics card, so that i show my result in MoIv3.1

Left Bunny from MoI v4 beta 175 patches and unfortunately no solid.

Right Bunny from PowerPack Pro for ViaCAD Pro v10 185 patches and solid.

Best regards
Stefan

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O.k. apologies Michael... The bunny from MoI v4 beta is now a solid too, after i scaled him up.
The original is probably to small for stitching it into a solid.

[EDIT] also after scaling the bunny up the display problems went away when moving the
model! I should from now on work with the v4 beta, to see if i can find glitches etc!

Best regards
Stefan

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The Faircad3d.com website seems to be unavailable?
MoI4 is still processing Stanford bunny...
- Brian

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Hi Brian,

maybe you have a very high-res quad mesh? My bunny has only
2333 quads (and no triangles) and was processed in seconds,
on my old iMac.

Regards
Stefan

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Hi Marco,

re:
> In order to do some real performance test and comparison between the subDiv of this new beta and
> the Max's SubDiv version I only need latest version of Max's subDiv that works with Moi V4.
>
> Could you please give a link to that?

I think it's available on Max's file archive page. To find that, go to http://moi3d.com/resources , then the link for "Max's file archive", then look for Subdiv_beta9.zip .


> Actually Max's counterpart of subDiv has a GREAT advantage over the builtin Moi's version: it
> allows to specify the "smoothness degree" when the imported obj it is going to be transformed into nurbs.
> Max's plugin expose a slider for that.
> It would be really convenient to have this chance also for the builtin Moi's subDiv.

Sorry but no I don't expect to have that in the new built in function to do this, it's an unusual function that is not typically part of how sub-d smoothing works with polygon modeling programs. You should use Max's plug-in instead if you need this.


> But...there are some use cases when I need to maintain the exact match between the flat
> planes of the imported obj and the resulting nurbs patches.
> Now it seems that this is not possible. The builtin subDiv always reduce the number of
> resulting patches, without any chance for us to decide its behavior.

It might be possible to add an option for this in the future, it might help if you could describe more about why you need to have a single polygon to single surface match.

- Michael

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Attached MoI file with Modo IntegrityWare SubD Nurbs Rhino export and same file converted with SubD Create.

IntergrityWare has some control over patches by Material Tags but imported file was not a solid until I separate and re-join patches.

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Hi Pilou,

re:
>The frenchstrings.txt ;)

Thanks Pilou!


> does this new import/export OBJ replace all the previous ? Your, the _import Obj by Max Smirnov...

I guess it depends on what you're doing, if the new function does what you need then yes.

- Michael

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Hi Stefan, thanks for testing it!

re:
> [EDIT] also after scaling the bunny up the display problems went away when moving the
> model! I should from now on work with the v4 beta, to see if i can find glitches etc!

There seems to be a problem on older iMacs with the new display engine function in v4 that caches display information on the video card.

I've just received an older iMac over here so I can test it and see about fixing that. But for now you can turn off the caching by the setting described here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=9089.7

- Michael

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HI Stefan, also re:

> O.k. apologies Michael... The bunny from MoI v4 beta is now a solid too, after i scaled him up.
> The original is probably to small for stitching it into a solid.

Can you please post or e-mail me the original unscaled one if you still have it? That is probably something that I can fix up.

- Michael

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Hi Brian,

> The Faircad3d.com website seems to be unavailable?

Yes currently he doesn't have any website set up for Faircad3d.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

thanks a lot for the display fix tip for my old iMac.
Now it works perfect!

I have send you also the bunny model for inspection.

Best regards
Stefan

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From danperk .rar file :



Export preview // meshing angle : 2

Image Attachments:
Moi3DvsPowerSubdNurbs.jpg 

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Message 9100.23 was deleted

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Hi danperk, thanks for posting the comparison file!

I took a close look at both of them and the Moi one is clearly far superior. I used Rhino to do a detailed analysis.

The first thing to notice is the isoparm distribution is different, Modo version on left, MoI on right:



The tricky part about SubD conversion is handling extraordinary vertices. You can see that they are handled pretty differently. The Modo/IW one generates degree 3 surfaces that are non-uniform, they have a refinement process of additional knots being inserted as they approach the extraordinary vertex. This is not too terrible in and of itself but it gives more opportunities for surface defects in areas with tightly bunched up control points. You can see the MoI one has a uniform isoparm distribution, it doesn't have refinement as it approaches the extraordinary vertex, it instead uses degree 6 patches in those areas. They kind of have a lot of points in them but they are very evenly spaced.

The shaping in the IW one is pretty good in most spots but there are some small areas that are not actually even G1 continuous, I think it looks like it has problems if there is something like a subtle inflection point in the surface right nearby an extraordinary vertex:




Zooming in on that spot in the Modo/IW one you can see the surface is perturbed in that area, and even has spots where the zebra lines do not match up meaning the surfaces are only G0 there and doesn't even have tangent continuity:






Zooming in on the same area in the Moi one:





With the simpler uniform knot structure in the Moi one there is just less that can go wrong. It's a better quality surface that is smooth and G2 curvature continuous throughout. I'm unable to find any bad shaping around any extraordinary vertex.

The thing that will be good about having this kind of very high surface quality result is that it should make a hybrid modeling approach more feasible where you can do something like a vehicle body as a sub-d cage and not have to worry about glitches in little spots of that shape.

- Michael

Image Attachments:
subd_compare1.jpg  subd_compare2.jpg  subd_compare3.jpg  subd_compare4.jpg  subd_compare5.jpg  subd_compare6.jpg 

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A few large-ish OBJ files:
http://www.prinmath.com/csci5229/OBJ/index.html

The F-16, and the Cruiser loaded promptly into MoI. 2,875 poly's +/-
The huge Bunny, 69,630 poly's, and the Suzanne Monkey head, 15,488 poly's, did not load, for a long time, and were aborted.

Very happy with new MoI feature!
- Brian

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Comparing another area of danperk's file, again on the Moi one I can't detect any break in G2 curvature continuity between any patches:







- Michael

Image Attachments:
subd_compare7.jpg  subd_compare8.jpg  subd_compare9.jpg 

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Hello Michael!

I did a simple but detailed test and for what I've tested so far, using two "all quads" poly objs, I can confirm that the new builtin SubDiv of Moi V4 does an MAZING JOB!!!

AMAZING RESULTS!!!!!
THANK YOU AND CONGRATS!!!!

Asap I'm going to make another test using an obj with tris, quads and n-gons and I will let you know.

For the time being I'm glad to post here the AMAZING results of the tests that I did using 2 "all quads" obj (created in Rocket3F):


Here's the two obj files I've used for the test:
https://monosnap.com/file/TJv0OZv2BXsMMYxfJbGH1XITuJGpPJ

********************************
THESE ARE THE RESULTS USING THE FIRST ALL-QUAD OBJ
Composed by 2400 quads
********************************

Here's the obj model:



Here's the resulting solid after Max's SubDiv, both in Moi V3 and V4


And here's the resulting solid after new builtin Moi's SubDiv


AND THESE ARE THE DETAILED RESULTS OF THE TEST USING THIS FIRST OBJ (2400 quads)

Moi V3
	- Max's Import Obj:
		- about 4.2 secs
		- 2400 total plane surfaces
		- 9600 total points after the "separate" command
		- about 150 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
	
	- Max's SubDiv:
		- about 29 secs
		- 2400 total surfaces
		- about 410 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
		- 79872 total points after the "separate" command

Moi V4
	- Max's Import Obj:
		- about 4.2 secs
		- 2400 total plane surfaces
		- 9600 total points after the "separate" command
		- about 200 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
	
	- Max's SubDiv:
		- about 24 secs
		- 2400 total surfaces
		- about 758 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
		- 79872 total points after the "separate" command

	- new builtin SubDiv:
		- about 5.5 secs
		- 480 total surfaces
		- about 390 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
		- 290784 total points after the "separate" command

********************************
THESE ARE THE RESULTS USING THE OTHER ALL-QUAD OBJ
Composed by 9600 quads
********************************

Here's the obj model:


AND THESE ARE THE DETAILED RESULTS OF THE TEST USING THIS OBJ (9600 quads)

Moi V3
	- Max's Import Obj:
		- about 65 secs
		- 9600 total plane surfaces
		- 38400 total points after the "separate" command
		- about 225 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
	
	- Max's SubDiv:
		- about 115 secs
		- 9600 total surfaces
		- about 623 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
		- 245760 total points after the "separate" command

Moi V4
	- Max's Import Obj:
		- about 64 secs
		- 9600 total plane surfaces
		- 38400 total points after the "separate" command
		- about 520 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
	
	- Max's SubDiv:
		- about 129 secs
		- 9600 total surfaces
		- about 1310 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
		- 245760 total points after the "separate" command

	- new builtin SubDiv:
		- about 5.5 secs
		- 480 total surfaces
		- about 375 Mb of total memory allocated by Moi
		- 290784 total points after the "separate" command

As you can see the new Moi's SubDiv command generates a polysurfaced solid composed by the same amount of faces, both with a starting obj of 2400 quads and an obj of 9600 quads :)
Clearly, thanks and due to G2 continuity, the amount of total control points is always rather high.
But we get a very smooth and good surfaces!


AMAZING :)

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