Full Version: V4 beta Oct-17-2018 available now - SubD to NURBS conversion

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Hi Alex, I have not yet come across any files that load slower in MoI v4 than in v3 so I don't really have any idea why that would be. Yes if you could please send me a shared link to it at moi@moi3d.com I can do some tests on it to see what is going on.

Also what are your system specs, do you have plenty of system RAM?

Thanks,
- Michael

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Just playing around with some boolean union cubes, save to .obj, and perform SubD.
Different results are obtained with SubD upon the .obj files, depending upon the original location with respect to the origin,
of the original 5 cube objects .3dm.
- Brian
(Out of upload room, will clear space and post .obj later.

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Hi Alex, re: large file loading - thanks for sending the file. Over here I get:

MoI V4 beta Oct-17 : 15 seconds
MoI v3: 70 seconds
Rhino v5: 27 seconds to load + 43 seconds "Creating meshes..." delay on first view navigation.

Additionally over here the V4 behavior is better all around than both MoI v3 and Rhino v5. On Both MoI v3 and Rhino v5 the main window is just frozen during the load while in MoI v4 the window doesn't freeze and there is a progress bar and cancel button.

My machine is fairly old, Intel Core i5-2500K Quad core CPU, 16 GB RAM, with an old style spinning disk.

I'd guess that your machine is probably a laptop? My theory is that with MoI v4 making heavy use of all CPU cores your machine doesn't like that sudden spike in energy use and it throttles the processor speed way down.

You can probably avoid this by making sure it is plugged in rather than running on battery power and then go to "Power Options" in the Windows Control Panel and make sure that the "High performance" power use plan is the one that is active. It's probably currently set to a plan that sacrifices performance for less battery use.

Does that make any difference?

Also I will put in a setting for the next v4 beta so you can turn off the multi-core processing for file loading.

- Michael

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Yah, I'll stick to my retopo tools for now but hopefully think about adding an all quad exporter! It would probably broaden Moi's use and appeal.

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Hi Michael,

Did a speed check on my desktop workstation and same time as yours with my laptop I always have it plugged in and with best perfomance setting. Will look into other settings to see if can improve load times.

thanks again for your time.

regards
Alex.

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Hi Alex, maybe check the advanced properties of the "High performance" power plan. Maybe it still has some CPU throttling set on it. If not I guess it is just getting too hot with all CPU cores running and throttling anyway. I'll make a setting in the next v4 beta where you can limit the number of CPU cores used for file loading maybe using just 2 or 3 cores on that particular machine will work better if it just can't thermally handle all at once.

- Michael

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Maybe he has a lower mesh angle setting on the one computer.???

Just a thought......

On another note, something i just noticed, but maybe it is normal, as i get the same thing in v3....

I think you called it "z fighting"...

So like in the 3d viewport, at some distance you can see edges if surfaces which are UNDER a surface, if you zoom in closer, the underlying edge goes away and you see the surface only.....

However, in the 2d views, the edge stays visible, even as close as you can get.... this didnt seem right, or at least i hadnt noticed it before.....

Comment?

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Hi Burr, yeah unfortunately that's a pretty hard type of display artifact to avoid completely especially in a 3D perspective view. In a perspective view the distribution of depth values isn't linear like it is in a 2D viewport. It makes it difficult to deal with things drawn in separate passes and with somewhat different draw mechanisms like shaded surfaces vs curve drawing.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,
Maybe you misunderstood?

My 3d viewport works ok... it is the 2d viewports that wont elimimate the underlying edge when zooming in....

Did you get that part?

Thanks for the responses...

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Hi Burr, sorry no I didn't understand correctly. So it sounds like you're talking about this kind of display artifact discussed here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4987.2

A 3D perspective viewport has a little different kind of depth behavior than a 2D one, so it's not too surprising that you would see slightly different behavior with depth sensitive operations between them.

I do have some ideas that I'd like to try to experiment with for reducing that type of display artifact in the future.

- Michael

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Thanks Michael!

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Some results from saving cubes in MoI as .obj, and applying create subD:

Attached are the solid models 4Box01.3dm and 4Box02.3dm, created in MoI, derived from the Box tool, which appear to be identical, but are not. Saving as .obj files and then using create SubD results in different SubD models. There are at least two additional permutation models, which result in different .obj and subD results. Saving some .3dm and reloading them, then saving to .obj and applying SubD may result in different results than the pre-saved .3dm to .obj save.

Creating 4Box02.3dm:
1. Create a box.
2. Use circular array to create 4 boxes touching by their edges.
3. Change color and Separate the inner 4 faces, leaving the outer 20 faces joined into 4 open cubes.
4. Select the 4 open cubes, excluding selection of the inner 4 faces, and join.
5. Select the 20 face outer joined surface, then select the inner 4 faces one by one. (they can be selected in different orders), and join to form the 24 face solid.
6. Save as .obj.
7. Use create SubD on the .obj file to yield 2 or 3 subD objects.

Creating 4Box01.3dm:
1. Create a box.
2. Use circular array, or copy to create 4 boxes touching by their edges.
3. (May change color of the 4 inner faces.) Select all 4 cubes and Separate.
4. Select the 20 outer faces and join to a joined surface.
5. Select the outer 20 face joined surface, then select each of the 4 inner faces, one by one, and join to one solid. (Note that selecting the 4 inner faces by their color, or by their name, does not give the same result.)
6. Save as .obj.
7. Use create SubD on the .obj file to yield 1 subD object.

Using meshlab, it turns out that the 4Box solids are not manifolds, and that they have different non-manifold edges. The meshlab command:
Filters/ Cleaning&Repairing/ Remove Faces from non manifold edges,
shows the difference between the two .obj solids.

(Three boxes may be arranged around a central triangle with comparable results.)
- Brian
Deleted this old attachment, for space.

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Hi Brian, thanks for testing this. The problem is that in both 4Box01.3dm and 4Box02.3dm the objects are not clean solids because more than 2 surfaces are coincident at these edges:



Having that type of geometry as one single object will cause various kinds of inconsistent behavior not just for .obj conversion but also for various other operations as well.

That should be separated out into 4 separate independent objects instead of being just one single object, that should then give a lot more consistent results.

I can understand that it is objectionable that MoI reports the object type here as "solid" but unfortunately it isn't really feasible for MoI to do an extensive self intersection test as part of the properties panel display. That's because such a test can end up being very time consuming especially on larger models and it would not be very good for everything to pause for say 10 seconds or so with every selection.

- Michael

Image Attachments:
brian_non_manifold.jpg 

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Thank you Michael.
I'm going to move on to other projects now :-)
- Brian

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Hey Michael,
THanks for the update. I'm getting an "Invalid Error" message when I try to download.


-Alan

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Hi Alan, please e-mail me your license key at moi@moi3d.com so I can try to see what the problem is.

You can also get your license key e-mailed to you from this page here: http://moi3d.com/reinstall.htm .

- Michael

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Thread Split: This post has been moved here

Thread Split: This post has been moved here

Hi Vladimir, I've split off your question to its own thread here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=9154.1

- Michael

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Hi Michael.
> What operating system are you running?

Windows 7 64bit.
Vladimir.

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