Full Version: 64 Bit and Linux support (via Wine) with Nvidia graphics cards

Hi!

The news says that the nvidia 390 driver series will be the last one with 32 bit legacy drivers. I just checked if all application that are important to me are 64 bit save.
So I temporarily re-moved all nvidia libraries from /usr/lib. Unfortunately, MoI then says "Could not initialize Direct3D 9". I assume there's nothing I can do to fix this for MoI V3.

I didn't yet had the time to tried MoI V4, yet - does it still work on Linux with Wine?

Feedback is highly appreciated!

Bernhard


P.S.: I'd pay a premium for native Linux support for V4 :-)

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Hi Bernhard, yes MoI v3 will need a 32-bit video driver to be able to run.

> I didn't yet had the time to tried MoI V4, yet - does it still work
> on Linux with Wine?

Seems to work fine on some systems and have video driver problems on some other ones. So it depends on the behavior of your video driver I guess.

It's 64-bit so it should solve that part of the problem though.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

Thanks very much for your fast response!

I'll try out V4 without installing the 32 bit nvidia libraries and report back how that went.

regards

Bernhard

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Hi, I use Linux OS to be precise Lubuntu LTS 16.04.03, and on my laptop with Skylate CPU and integrated Intel HD 5500 work very well, but on the desktop with Nvidia GTX750Ti graphics card and latest drivers, Moi not recognize object entity, such as line face ecc.., highlighting it on mouse over.

a video of beta of December, by me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R89-Qnl7gWY

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Hi pafurijaz,

re:
> but on the desktop with Nvidia GTX750Ti graphics card and latest drivers, Moi not recognize
> object entity, such as line face ecc.., highlighting it on mouse over.

Are there any settings for the graphics card driver about forcing anti-aliasing on? One problem that can cause this symptom is if the driver does antialiasing even if MoI has not requested it, it messes up object id information.

If there is a setting for "application controlled" antialiasing rather than forcing it on, try that.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

V4 FEB 9 is executing on Fedora 27 when removing the 32 bit nvidia libraries, so that part is ok.

However, it's pretty much unusable for me:

1) When drawing i.e. two boxes, then MoI will always select the first box, even when clicking on the second box.
2) I can't select lines or faces within a box
3) When moving from i.e. top view to 3d view, then I first need to click into the 3d view window or otherwise it won't zoom with the mouse wheel (instead, the zoom is done in the top view window).

Please let me know what further tests I can carry out in order to help you track down the issue.

TIA and best regards

Bernhard

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Addenum:

MoI V4 FEB 9 is working as expected with my laptop (intel i915 driver). The Fedora installations are identical with the exception for the graphics drivers (and xorg configuration).
It appears it's the same issue as pafurijaz reported. I'll check the anti-aliasing settings as suggested.

regards

Bernhard

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Hi!

Just a quick update: I did

export __GL_FSAA_MODE=0
export __GL_ALLOW_FXAA_USAGE=0
export __GL_LOG_MAX_ANISO=0

before starting MoI V4, but that the behaviour is still the same :-(

There are more options for the tuning the nvidia driver, but I don't think they will have any influence (I'll try nevertheless).

best regards

Bernhard

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Hi Michael, I tried with the settings of the graphics card, but nothing has changed, I think that in WineHQ there is not a proper functioning of Nvidia .. I read something a little 'time ago, probably adding some dll library, but I'm not that expert to understand what should be included.
We need an wine expert..

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Hi Michael,

In "nvidia-settings", for "Antialiasing Settings", I applied "Off" and "Override Application Settings":



but the issue remains and as far as I can tell, the output is always anti-aliased:




You mentioned that anti-aliasing is messing up object IDs. So would it help to add an option in MoI to enable anti-aliasing? I mean, so that MoI and wine are in sync about the state?

BTW.: With MoI V3 on wine, it also appears that anti-aliasing is enabled by default (see, below), but there is no issue concerning selecting objects.



Feedback is highly appreciated!

TIA and best regards

Bernhard

Image Attachments:
moi3-wine.png  moi4-wine.png  nvidia-settings.png 

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Hi Bernhard,

> but the issue remains and as far as I can tell, the output is always anti-aliased:

It's hard to tell if anti-aliasing is turned on there because it's solid polygon drawing anti-aliasing that would cause the object id problem, edge antialiasing like on all the outlines of a box is done using a different method. Can you do something like a sphere instead so I can see the silhouettes from shaded polygon drawing instead of edge drawing?


> In "nvidia-settings", for "Antialiasing Settings", I applied "Off" and "Override Application Settings":

Usually it's best to let it be "Application controlled" if there is any setting for that available.


> So would it help to add an option in MoI to enable anti-aliasing? I mean, so that MoI
> and wine are in sync about the state?

Well the selection mechanism does some video card rendering but it's slightly different than what you see on the screen. The rendering done for selection can't have antialiasing enabled for it to work properly.

It could be possible that it's some other issue around texture readback that's the problem and not antialiasing being forced on after all, it's just that in the past that has been the case in other instances that only mouse-over selection was not working.


> BTW.: With MoI V3 on wine, it also appears that anti-aliasing is enabled by default (see, below),
> but there is no issue concerning selecting objects.

MoI V3 on Wine was using Wine's Direct3D9 layer for doing the graphics, while MoI v4 on Wine is using OpenGL, so the graphics libraries that are used are pretty different between them. I'll be adding an option in the next beta to force MoI to use Direct3D11 on Wine rather than OpenGL maybe that will work better.

Probably not for the next beta but sometime after I'll investigate if MoI is doing something wrong with texture readback for OpenGL that needs to be tuned up. It should in theory be better for MoI to use OpenGL on Wine since it's a much thinner layer.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

Thanks for your fast response!

"Use Application Settings" is the default:



The sphere object looks not anti-aliased, but the curve on the sphere appears to be:



Looks the same for MoI v3.


I actually don't dare to ask: with V4 now using Qt and OpenGL, what are the chances that MoI will support Linux natively in a foreseeable future? :-)

best regards

Bernhard

Image Attachments:
moi4-sphere.png  nvidia-settings-Use_Application_Settings.png 

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Hi Bernhard, thanks for testing that.

So that looks like the problem isn't anti-aliasing being forced on, it must be something else.

I will see if some changes to how MoI does the texture readback for selection might help.


> I actually don't dare to ask: with V4 now using Qt and OpenGL, what are the chances that
> MoI will support Linux natively in a foreseeable future? :-)

I'm sorry but it's not something I think is feasible for me to target currently, there's just so much additional work involved beyond compiling. Things like learning all the platform specific behavior quirks and testing different distros require a lot of time.

Just supporting 2 different platforms has pretty much stretched me to the limit as it is.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

With all the exceptional work you are doing on MoI and the excellent free support in the Forum, I kind of expected that there's not enough bandwidth for a Linux port :-)
Keep up the good work!

best regards

Bernhard

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Thanks Bernhard! I will be able to spend some time working out the kinks for Wine support though. It doesn't seem like there is too much to do for tuning that up, the problem is likely to be in a specific area of texture read back for the selection problems.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

Thanks for supporting wine! Please let me know when you need me to run some tests.

best regards

Bernhard

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Hi Michael,

I am referring to the above screenshots where the sphere is seen with the line anti-aliased and the outlines of the sphere like small steps. I am not into that discussion about Linux and wire, but using Win7 and NVIDIA graphics (with an older gamer card, 780TI or similar) is there a way to get rid of these small steps on the outlines?

For example when I draw two lines and make a loft resulting in a surface it looks really annoying with the surface outlines and the curve line combined especially when pan around in 3D view which I often use, it's quite hard to work with when using surfaces. Only with normal curve lines it's fine, they are anti-aliased. Maybe just a graphic setting or editing the .ini file will help?



Best regards,

Axel

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Hi Axel, sorry no there currently isn't any way set in MoI to do anti-aliasing of shaded surface areas. But curves and edges are antialiased automatically.

- Michael

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Thanks Michael, nonetheless a great program :-)


Best regards,

Axel

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