Full Version: Hidden line removal progress

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Hi Michael,

In Illustrator there's a 5 meters page limit, so bigger elements could be problematic to import and hard to be accurate when dimensioning, so Architectural drawing could be hard. Yes, we can rescale the drawing inside the application, but need to do it over and over for each view.

I was thinking on my workflow as i use an Illustrator plugin called CadTools from Hot Door as their Dimensioning Tool can dimension with scale.

From what i can see setting a scale on export could lead to some problems.

Carlos

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Hi Carlos,

> I was thinking on my workflow as i use an Illustrator plugin called CadTools from Hot Door as their
> Dimensioning Tool can dimension with scale.

How does CadTools work for knowing what sizes to apply for units like meters or feet when it is making dimensions?

Is it possible to do something like calibrate it to a single line somewhere on the page that has a known length?

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

> How does CadTools work for knowing what sizes to apply for units like meters or feet when it is making dimensions?

Don't know if i understand your question, anyway, on the Dimensioning Tool Preferences i set the scale, like 1:5, and the Dimensioning Tool put the dimensions accordnly, so when dimensioning, for ex. a 1 meter line, the Tool write 5 meters.


> Is it possible to do something like calibrate it to a single line somewhere on the page that has a known length?

Again, i'm not sure if i'm following, but yes, if the exported view brings that specific information, and the drawing respect it, so yes. Or could bring a caption like Scale 1:5.

Carlos

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Hi Carlos,

> Don't know if i understand your question, anyway, on the Dimensioning Tool Preferences
> i set the scale, like 1:5, and the Dimensioning Tool put the dimensions accordnly, so when
> dimensioning, for ex. a 1 meter line, the Tool write 5 meters.

How do you get a 1 meter line to start with, does it have to measure 1 meter in page size, shooting way out past the printed page boundaries?



> Again, i'm not sure if i'm following, but yes, if the exported view brings that specific information, and the
> drawing respect it, so yes. Or could bring a caption like Scale 1:5.

As far as I know there isn't any particular way to attach a scale factor value to a "view", in Illustrator you're basically working on a printed page that's contained within a sheet of paper and the units that geometry have are in "points" units on that page with 1 point = 1/72 of an inch.

re: calibration - I was thinking that maybe with CadTools you could pick a line and tell it: "This line is 5 meters long", and then it would know what scale to use. I guess it does not work like that though.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

I don't understand. My english isn't good enough, so its better to stop here, and maybe someone with a similar workflow and a better english could help.

Anyway, i'll try with 2 examples because it looks we are not talking about the same:

Example A: In Moi3D i draw a 5x5 metter square, export it in AI file (the top view), open it in Illustrator, CadTool is at default 1:1, so this tool writes 5 meters by 5 meters.

Example B: In Moi3D i draw a 5x5 metter square, i downscale it to 1x1 meter, export it in AI file (the top view), open it in Illustrator, i set CadTool at 1:5 scale (because i know i did it before export, or Moi3D did it for me), so the tool writes 5 meters by 5 meters.

In Moi3D and Illustrator the units are set to milimeters.

Remember that i'm talking about Ortho views exports, for dimensioning accurately.

Carlos

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Hey Carlos,
SImlab is great and has a good 3d pdf output.

""""""""I'm using Simlab and its great, but i've to go trought Modo (nurbs > polygons, an extra step)"""""""""""""

No, just export the polys from MoI as OBJ. Don't go to Modo first. MoI has a great mesher.

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Hi Carlos,

> Example A: In Moi3D i draw a 5x5 metter square, export it in AI file (the top view), open it in
> Illustrator, CadTool is at default 1:1, so this tool writes 5 meters by 5 meters.

Maybe let's focus on just this one particular example here.

How would you expect to see the result of a 5x5 meter square when opened in AI at 1:1 scale?

AI normally works on a sheet of printed paper... It's very unusual for a printer to have a printed page at 5 meters by 5 meters in size, so wouldn't this end up something like the drawn square going way way far off outside the printed page boundaries that you would normally be working with in Illustrator?

How is it that you would expect for a file in MoI with meters as the units to come into Illustrator? A 1:1 scale isn't very feasible because the object size becomes so huge in comparsion to the print area. I guess this is why you were asking about setting a scale factor...

What I was hoping was that maybe in CadTools instead of telling it the scale factor you could instead pick one line in the drawing and tell it what that line's original length was - that would be enough information for the scale factor to be calculated no matter what kind of scale was used, even if it was a scale factor that was automatically generated just to fit the drawing into the width of the page.

- Michael

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hi micheal

To add to the scale output discussion. It would be good if we could choose a percentage of original size to output. Currently i work with aircraft (to scale) and then output with isodraw at say 20%. All my models are outputted at 20% and they all have the same reference cube in the same 3d space, so when it comes to piecing the linework files together I simply have to aligned the cubes from each file. But going back to earlier, it only works if i can export all the pieces at same scale. See sample, note cube in top right corner. This just my work flow but it has proved invaluable especially as larger models have to be exported a piece at a time.

matt

Image Attachments:
Screen Shot 2013-10-16 at 7.57.56 AM.png 

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hi micheal

In my last post i mentioned about my workflow being able export at 20%. This of course will only work if I can save the camera position in the 3d view so its the same for every model?export session - is this currently possible?
matt

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Hi matt,

> This of course will only work if I can save the camera position in the 3d view so its the
> same for every model?export session - is this currently possible?

If you save to a 3DM file, the 3d view is stored in the 3DM file and will get restored to the same position and direction when you reload the file. You would need to be careful though not to rotate the view to some different angle and then resave it again. You might want to write down the current view angles so you would be able to restore them in that case, you can get and set the angles for the current view direction under Options > View > 3D View angles.

re: scale - I'll see about doing better control of the scale.

- Michael

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hi michael

I see what you mean in the settings re the view parameters. As a future development it would be nice to have a way of saving these numbers so you can say access via a pull down menu for easy access. In my work, aircraft, the models are huge and so we have to work in smaller sub assemblies, therefore i need to export many files at same viewpoint/settings. Its also nice to be able to export say a new part with the reference box and drop it straight into the master drawing with accuracy.

I can see from this thread we are up to nearly 180 messages - definitely a hot topic!! and i am sure this vector output you are currently working on will give you a wider user base. Great work as always :-)

matt

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Hi matt, yeah in the future I want to add in some type of "saved view" or "named view" type mechanism where this information could be saved and restored.

I haven't quite figured out where to put that in the UI, I have some general idea that things that involve lists of saved items might be good to put in the scene browser but I haven't really had a chance to explore that yet.

- Michael

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Hi Burrman,

Yes, you are correct, Moi3D mesher is amazing, and complements very well Moi3D's efficiency and simplicity with nurbs.
Usually i take that extra step to apply materiails and textures, even knowing that PDF materials and looks are quite simple/poor. But yes, you're right, will do that, thanks.

Hi Michael,

> How would you expect to see the result of a 5x5 meter square when opened in AI at 1:1 scale?

I expect a 5x5 meter square on 5779,55 x 5779,55 milimeter document (biggest AI_CC document possible).



> AI normally works on a sheet of printed paper...

Please, lets 'forget' the printing stage for a minute, and just focus on dimensioning stage on an outside application. Printing is final stage, on a small Letter desktop printer, a 5 meter large digital printer, a 3x2 meter laser cutter, and so on.
The process of this dimension tool work is - on a 1 meter line - just click the first vertice and click again on the last vertice. The tool will pop up Dimensions Lines and a small text saying '1 meter'.


> ... CadTools instead of telling it the scale factor ...

Its the user who tells/choose on what scale CadTool should work, and not the opposite. The user need to know it beforehand to dimension it accuretly.

Carlos

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Hi Carlos, I'll see about making the output scale more controllable. It will probably be something where it says:

X units in MoI = Y centimeters/mm/inches/points in the AI file.

And then you'll be able to fill in X and Y and choose what units Y is in.

- Michael

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hi michael

i was thinking the logical place for access to pre saved view is on the window itself . . on clicking a list would appear in top right where usual prompts appear . .

matt

Image Attachments:
views.jpg 

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Hi matt,

> i was thinking the logical place for access to pre saved view is on the window itself . . on clicking
> a list would appear in top right where usual prompts appear . .

It's a big goal with MoI to avoid "bloating" the UI up with things that are for more specialized use... So I'd probably try to avoid putting that in such a high profile area.

It is often challenging to incorporate new features for "power users" while at the same time keeping the overall light and easy-to-learn aspect of MoI.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

Thanks.

Carlos

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hi michael

I fully understand. Maybe a switch in prefs where power users can switch on some extras. Of course if its too simple you run the risk of dimming down the software imo. MOI certainly has a lot to offer and when i first began using it i noted it was good but seemed a little "empty" of features - how little I knew then!!! It has most things I can think of . .
matt

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"Maybe a switch in prefs where power users can switch on some extras"

In my experience, this is usually a downward spiral. Basically think of a switch as doubling the testing workload and adding to maintenance overhead. That's how you have to weigh every checkbox you add to an app. It can get deadly pretty quick.

The best idea is to design the UI so that it works for everyone. Maybe the power users aren't 100% satisfied but if they can get to an 80% happiness level with it, that's enough.

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Maybe a cool solution will be a customisable UI where user can put for example all icons for it's scripts on a new dock ! ;)

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