Full Version: Hidden line removal progress

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Hi Michael,

> Yeah I think that will be possible. Probably by default the hidden lines on PDF export will not be displayed but I'll put in an option for having them and when they are enabled it would make sense to give them a faint dashed line style in the PDF file as well I think.

Will you keep this option on final release, or you drop it? In some cases this can be quite usefull. If it means no extra work i suggest you keep.

Another question, will you consider making a 3D PDF export, or it is a monster task? Maybe for v4 : ))

Carlos

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Hi Carlos,

> Will you keep this option on final release, or you drop it? In some cases this can be
> quite usefull. If it means no extra work i suggest you keep.

I am still planning on having that (optional dashed hidden lines), in fact it's what I've been working on just today. I've attached a sample PDF, it looks like this:







This one has different layers in the PDF for: Outlines, Background image, Hidden lines, visible lines on their original style, and silhouettes. I think those will be the various kinds of things that can be generated. Next up I'll be planning the UI to control things.



> Another question, will you consider making a 3D PDF export, or it is a monster task? Maybe for v4 : ))

Right now I don't have any plans for a 3D PDF export, it's an entirely different thing from 2D PDF and I don't really know a lot of details about it. I think some kind of library is needed to make them and it's kind of a messy situation because Adobe decided to basically get rid of their own library for 3D PDF support and sold it off to some separate company or something like that, it's a bit confusing what's going on with it.

At any rate, it doesn't really have anything to do with the regular 2D PDF work that I'm doing now.

- Michael

Attachments:
test_hidden.pdf

Image Attachments:
hidden.png  hidden2.png 

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Does the internal "large black lines" can be disable and can be parametered? (different size)

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Hi Pilou,

> Does the internal "large black lines" can be disable

Yup, they can be disabled in Adobe Viewer by going to the Layers control and clicking the little eye icon to turn off the layer for "Silhouettes".

I'm also planning on having an option at export time to control whether those are generated or not.



> and can be parametered? (different size)

I also want to have an option at export time to control that as well. The specifics of the export UI haven't been finished yet, that will probably be the next thing that I work on.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

The internal dashed line are just perfect. Well done.


>> Does the internal "large black lines" can be disable

> Yup, they can be disabled in Adobe Viewer by going to the Layers control and clicking the little eye icon to turn off the layer for "Silhouettes".

> I'm also planning on having an option at export time to control whether those are generated or not.

This is great - be able to turn them off on export time - since i'm not big fan of it, probably never will use it.


Concerning the 3D PDF export: Its a shame that Adobe is messing with it, since its a well spread file format and very usefull. I'm using Simlab and its great, but i've to go trought Modo (nurbs > polygons, an extra step).

Thanks.

Carlos

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Hi Michael,

In which scale will be the export? Real scale and screen scale?

What do you think about setting the scale on the export dialog window, like 1:1, 1:5, 1:20, 2:5?

Could be very usefull to dimensioning in other application. Don't know if this will be usefull for somebody else.

Carlos

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Hi Carlos,

> In which scale will be the export? Real scale and screen scale?

Currently it works the same as the already existing wireframe PDF and AI output - there's a "Fit to page" option which if enabled centers the output on the printed page and scales it to fill the page. All the examples that I've posted here are done that way.

If "Fit to page" is turned off, then it will preserve the existing unit size. For PDF and AI output that will involve scaling to the native PDF/AI "points" units if your current units are millimeters, centimeters, or inches, otherwise it will scale things up by 20 times if you have any other kinds of units set which deviate highly in scale from a printed "point" (1/72 of an inch).

For DXF it just preserves units 1:1.


> What do you think about setting the scale on the export dialog window, like 1:1, 1:5, 1:20, 2:5?

Maybe... Probably every application that you're importing into will have some function in it to scale the objects if you need that though.

Both AI and PDF file formats are heavily based around "point" units and printed page bounds though.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

In Illustrator there's a 5 meters page limit, so bigger elements could be problematic to import and hard to be accurate when dimensioning, so Architectural drawing could be hard. Yes, we can rescale the drawing inside the application, but need to do it over and over for each view.

I was thinking on my workflow as i use an Illustrator plugin called CadTools from Hot Door as their Dimensioning Tool can dimension with scale.

From what i can see setting a scale on export could lead to some problems.

Carlos

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Hi Carlos,

> I was thinking on my workflow as i use an Illustrator plugin called CadTools from Hot Door as their
> Dimensioning Tool can dimension with scale.

How does CadTools work for knowing what sizes to apply for units like meters or feet when it is making dimensions?

Is it possible to do something like calibrate it to a single line somewhere on the page that has a known length?

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

> How does CadTools work for knowing what sizes to apply for units like meters or feet when it is making dimensions?

Don't know if i understand your question, anyway, on the Dimensioning Tool Preferences i set the scale, like 1:5, and the Dimensioning Tool put the dimensions accordnly, so when dimensioning, for ex. a 1 meter line, the Tool write 5 meters.


> Is it possible to do something like calibrate it to a single line somewhere on the page that has a known length?

Again, i'm not sure if i'm following, but yes, if the exported view brings that specific information, and the drawing respect it, so yes. Or could bring a caption like Scale 1:5.

Carlos

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Hi Carlos,

> Don't know if i understand your question, anyway, on the Dimensioning Tool Preferences
> i set the scale, like 1:5, and the Dimensioning Tool put the dimensions accordnly, so when
> dimensioning, for ex. a 1 meter line, the Tool write 5 meters.

How do you get a 1 meter line to start with, does it have to measure 1 meter in page size, shooting way out past the printed page boundaries?



> Again, i'm not sure if i'm following, but yes, if the exported view brings that specific information, and the
> drawing respect it, so yes. Or could bring a caption like Scale 1:5.

As far as I know there isn't any particular way to attach a scale factor value to a "view", in Illustrator you're basically working on a printed page that's contained within a sheet of paper and the units that geometry have are in "points" units on that page with 1 point = 1/72 of an inch.

re: calibration - I was thinking that maybe with CadTools you could pick a line and tell it: "This line is 5 meters long", and then it would know what scale to use. I guess it does not work like that though.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

I don't understand. My english isn't good enough, so its better to stop here, and maybe someone with a similar workflow and a better english could help.

Anyway, i'll try with 2 examples because it looks we are not talking about the same:

Example A: In Moi3D i draw a 5x5 metter square, export it in AI file (the top view), open it in Illustrator, CadTool is at default 1:1, so this tool writes 5 meters by 5 meters.

Example B: In Moi3D i draw a 5x5 metter square, i downscale it to 1x1 meter, export it in AI file (the top view), open it in Illustrator, i set CadTool at 1:5 scale (because i know i did it before export, or Moi3D did it for me), so the tool writes 5 meters by 5 meters.

In Moi3D and Illustrator the units are set to milimeters.

Remember that i'm talking about Ortho views exports, for dimensioning accurately.

Carlos

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Hey Carlos,
SImlab is great and has a good 3d pdf output.

""""""""I'm using Simlab and its great, but i've to go trought Modo (nurbs > polygons, an extra step)"""""""""""""

No, just export the polys from MoI as OBJ. Don't go to Modo first. MoI has a great mesher.

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Hi Carlos,

> Example A: In Moi3D i draw a 5x5 metter square, export it in AI file (the top view), open it in
> Illustrator, CadTool is at default 1:1, so this tool writes 5 meters by 5 meters.

Maybe let's focus on just this one particular example here.

How would you expect to see the result of a 5x5 meter square when opened in AI at 1:1 scale?

AI normally works on a sheet of printed paper... It's very unusual for a printer to have a printed page at 5 meters by 5 meters in size, so wouldn't this end up something like the drawn square going way way far off outside the printed page boundaries that you would normally be working with in Illustrator?

How is it that you would expect for a file in MoI with meters as the units to come into Illustrator? A 1:1 scale isn't very feasible because the object size becomes so huge in comparsion to the print area. I guess this is why you were asking about setting a scale factor...

What I was hoping was that maybe in CadTools instead of telling it the scale factor you could instead pick one line in the drawing and tell it what that line's original length was - that would be enough information for the scale factor to be calculated no matter what kind of scale was used, even if it was a scale factor that was automatically generated just to fit the drawing into the width of the page.

- Michael

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hi micheal

To add to the scale output discussion. It would be good if we could choose a percentage of original size to output. Currently i work with aircraft (to scale) and then output with isodraw at say 20%. All my models are outputted at 20% and they all have the same reference cube in the same 3d space, so when it comes to piecing the linework files together I simply have to aligned the cubes from each file. But going back to earlier, it only works if i can export all the pieces at same scale. See sample, note cube in top right corner. This just my work flow but it has proved invaluable especially as larger models have to be exported a piece at a time.

matt

Image Attachments:
Screen Shot 2013-10-16 at 7.57.56 AM.png 

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hi micheal

In my last post i mentioned about my workflow being able export at 20%. This of course will only work if I can save the camera position in the 3d view so its the same for every model?export session - is this currently possible?
matt

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Hi matt,

> This of course will only work if I can save the camera position in the 3d view so its the
> same for every model?export session - is this currently possible?

If you save to a 3DM file, the 3d view is stored in the 3DM file and will get restored to the same position and direction when you reload the file. You would need to be careful though not to rotate the view to some different angle and then resave it again. You might want to write down the current view angles so you would be able to restore them in that case, you can get and set the angles for the current view direction under Options > View > 3D View angles.

re: scale - I'll see about doing better control of the scale.

- Michael

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hi michael

I see what you mean in the settings re the view parameters. As a future development it would be nice to have a way of saving these numbers so you can say access via a pull down menu for easy access. In my work, aircraft, the models are huge and so we have to work in smaller sub assemblies, therefore i need to export many files at same viewpoint/settings. Its also nice to be able to export say a new part with the reference box and drop it straight into the master drawing with accuracy.

I can see from this thread we are up to nearly 180 messages - definitely a hot topic!! and i am sure this vector output you are currently working on will give you a wider user base. Great work as always :-)

matt

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Hi matt, yeah in the future I want to add in some type of "saved view" or "named view" type mechanism where this information could be saved and restored.

I haven't quite figured out where to put that in the UI, I have some general idea that things that involve lists of saved items might be good to put in the scene browser but I haven't really had a chance to explore that yet.

- Michael

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Hi Burrman,

Yes, you are correct, Moi3D mesher is amazing, and complements very well Moi3D's efficiency and simplicity with nurbs.
Usually i take that extra step to apply materiails and textures, even knowing that PDF materials and looks are quite simple/poor. But yes, you're right, will do that, thanks.

Hi Michael,

> How would you expect to see the result of a 5x5 meter square when opened in AI at 1:1 scale?

I expect a 5x5 meter square on 5779,55 x 5779,55 milimeter document (biggest AI_CC document possible).



> AI normally works on a sheet of printed paper...

Please, lets 'forget' the printing stage for a minute, and just focus on dimensioning stage on an outside application. Printing is final stage, on a small Letter desktop printer, a 5 meter large digital printer, a 3x2 meter laser cutter, and so on.
The process of this dimension tool work is - on a 1 meter line - just click the first vertice and click again on the last vertice. The tool will pop up Dimensions Lines and a small text saying '1 meter'.


> ... CadTools instead of telling it the scale factor ...

Its the user who tells/choose on what scale CadTool should work, and not the opposite. The user need to know it beforehand to dimension it accuretly.

Carlos

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