Full Version: Hidden line removal progress

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>..a little PS filtering to give it a 'hand-drawn' appeal

Very nice Mike. All those possibilities are great. What filters did you use?
I don't think I'll use C4Ds Sketch&Toon that much when V3 is finished. MoIs output is better.
I'm also looking forward to play with MoIs ligthing options.

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Is there, or would it be beneficial, to have an on screen "print preview" of how the pdf would look in
a printed version? Laserjet? Inkjet?
Or is the target another software program?

I'll have to try that photoshop filtering.

What is the type of output? Bitmaps?
I noticed that the free "AI Viewer" program does not show anything.

- Brian

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That is such a sexy result!

That is what I needed from Solid Works for 11 years for product manuals and manufacturing instruction guides.

That turns finish work in an outside package in just laying out the images in the right places.


Simply awesome.

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Well, I use the make 2d to do architectural drawings from the model and usually I don't model every detail because it is too time and power consuming and I just add it later in 2d. Furthermore if I want to change some lines styles of a make 2d output it is easier if the lines preserves the object name so I can isolate a group of lines and change just the lines I want. I attached an example.

Attachments:
SEC A.pdf

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Hi Martin,

> Here's a more common 3:1 ratio between silhouettes and default lines. I've noticed you used a 10:1 ratio.

What is the line weight that you used for the small size there?

In the settings I used, I was kind of tuning things so the silhouettes were easier to distinguish in Adobe Reader when still zoomed a bit out. But it seems like Adobe Reader may kind of fatten things up a bit on the on-screen display though, it looks fairly different than the same weights being displayed inside of Illustrator.

I am planning on having these line weights be settable in export options though, so you'll be able to set them to whatever you like.

- Michael

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Hi Martin,

> The last one I promise (I can't help but I'm too excited :)
>
> Reduced background opacity and 75% black silhouette:


This is why it's so cool to have separate layers and having vectors for the lines, there is a lot of possibility to do various tuning and tweaking to get different looks!

- Michael

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Hi Brian,

> With regard to printed output, with a 5 year old Brother MFC laser printer, Michael's test_silhouette.pdf is superb,
> (although it looks a little too "harsh" or "sharp" on my samsung monitor, in my opinion.) I gather it is "10X?

Yeah it seems to be fairly hard to really clearly see small differences in line weight on the monitor, the printer just has such a finer grained resolution than the monitor.

So probably there won't be any one single "one size fits all purposes" line weights, different kinds of uses will probably benefit from different settings.

Over here just the screen display between Adobe Reader and Adobe Illustrator with the same line weights actually looks fairly different...

- Michael

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Hi Brian,

> Is there, or would it be beneficial, to have an on screen "print preview" of how the pdf would look in
> a printed version? Laserjet? Inkjet?

It would definitely be nice to have that, but I have to balance that against how much development time it would take and also how much actual real life usefulness that it would provide.

Also for things like line weights for printing you really can't entirely judge 100% what the print will look like from the on screen display, I think you have to actually make some printouts to really see it.

So I thinking that probably an on screen preview of the hidden lines probably won't happen for this release.



> Or is the target another software program?

Yeah, pretty much - if you just want to do a print then the other program can be the Adobe Reader PDF viewer program. If you want to adjust things then the other program would be a 2D illustration program like Adobe Illustrator / Corel Draw / Xara / Inkscape / etc...

- Michael

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Hi ed,

> <....>
> Furthermore if I want to change some lines styles of a make 2d output

Right now this kind of thing with changing line styles for individual objects won't really work in MoI since MoI doesn't have settable line styles yet for the regular modeling area.

But that does help me understand what you'd want that for - you kind of rough out the shape in 3D and then convert that to a 2D drawing and then continue working on your drawing just as if you were in a 2D CAD program doing 2D drawing only after that, is that basically correct?

If you wanted to do that in MoI you could just save out to any of .ai /.pdf /.dxf format and then just open that file back into MoI and then do 2D drawing on top of it.

- Michael

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Dang!
Rather excellent!


This might go well with two tone lightning like Mike's example




Tweaking colors or vectorise the bitmap would be easy afterward.




Ikea plans on the fly!!!







Jolly good!

Marc

Image Attachments:
3.PNG  Capture.PNG  LO_ZebraStripe.jpg 

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> What filters did you use?

Martin, the fill layer was processed using one of PS's built-in "Artistic" filters. This gives the fill a painted look.
The outlines were Gaussian blurred a little and then contrast was applied to re-sharpen the result.
I used an Eye-Candy "Jiggle" filter to give it all a non-computer-made 'hand' look. You can also use PS's stock "Distort/Ripple" filter on a low setting.


Michael, will this type of outlining output work in Perspective, Parallel and Iso modes?

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"... you kind of rough out the shape in 3D and then convert that to a 2D drawing and then continue working on your drawing..."

Yes! ok, I think I can live importing back the pdf. Only one question, I don't understand yet if the pdf will preserve both the objects name and styles.

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Hi Mike,

> Michael, will this type of outlining output work in Perspective, Parallel and Iso modes?

Yeah all of these things including the accented silhouettes will work in any kind of view mode.

The main kind of thing that will have problems overall are details that are pretty tiny in size in relation to the whole object being processed. Much of the hidden/visible determination is done with a pixel-like depth map and if curves are little enough that they only occupy one or a couple of pixels in the depth map they will get kind of clumped together.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

>What is the line weight that you used for the small size there?

I used 0.15 mm for the Default lines and 0.45 mm for the Silhouette lines and only cared about a good screen display.

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Hi Ed,

> Only one question, I don't understand yet if the pdf will preserve both the objects name and styles.

No unfortunately it won't preserve those at least not currently.

I'll see about making some additional command to generate the hidden line output directly inside of MoI. I'm not sure if that will be in this next beta yet or not though.

It might not work so well to modify the silhouette command to do that since silhouettes can be used for other purposes as well like making parting lines for mold making.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

> Yeah I think that will be possible. Probably by default the hidden lines on PDF export will not be displayed but I'll put in an option for having them and when they are enabled it would make sense to give them a faint dashed line style in the PDF file as well I think.

Will you keep this option on final release, or you drop it? In some cases this can be quite usefull. If it means no extra work i suggest you keep.

Another question, will you consider making a 3D PDF export, or it is a monster task? Maybe for v4 : ))

Carlos

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Hi Carlos,

> Will you keep this option on final release, or you drop it? In some cases this can be
> quite usefull. If it means no extra work i suggest you keep.

I am still planning on having that (optional dashed hidden lines), in fact it's what I've been working on just today. I've attached a sample PDF, it looks like this:







This one has different layers in the PDF for: Outlines, Background image, Hidden lines, visible lines on their original style, and silhouettes. I think those will be the various kinds of things that can be generated. Next up I'll be planning the UI to control things.



> Another question, will you consider making a 3D PDF export, or it is a monster task? Maybe for v4 : ))

Right now I don't have any plans for a 3D PDF export, it's an entirely different thing from 2D PDF and I don't really know a lot of details about it. I think some kind of library is needed to make them and it's kind of a messy situation because Adobe decided to basically get rid of their own library for 3D PDF support and sold it off to some separate company or something like that, it's a bit confusing what's going on with it.

At any rate, it doesn't really have anything to do with the regular 2D PDF work that I'm doing now.

- Michael

Attachments:
test_hidden.pdf

Image Attachments:
hidden.png  hidden2.png 

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Does the internal "large black lines" can be disable and can be parametered? (different size)

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Hi Pilou,

> Does the internal "large black lines" can be disable

Yup, they can be disabled in Adobe Viewer by going to the Layers control and clicking the little eye icon to turn off the layer for "Silhouettes".

I'm also planning on having an option at export time to control whether those are generated or not.



> and can be parametered? (different size)

I also want to have an option at export time to control that as well. The specifics of the export UI haven't been finished yet, that will probably be the next thing that I work on.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

The internal dashed line are just perfect. Well done.


>> Does the internal "large black lines" can be disable

> Yup, they can be disabled in Adobe Viewer by going to the Layers control and clicking the little eye icon to turn off the layer for "Silhouettes".

> I'm also planning on having an option at export time to control whether those are generated or not.

This is great - be able to turn them off on export time - since i'm not big fan of it, probably never will use it.


Concerning the 3D PDF export: Its a shame that Adobe is messing with it, since its a well spread file format and very usefull. I'm using Simlab and its great, but i've to go trought Modo (nurbs > polygons, an extra step).

Thanks.

Carlos

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