Full Version: V5 beta Apr-27-2026 available now (Sticky)

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If a tool is triggered via shortcut, some but not all of the parameters are reset to default values, which is different from triggering it in the UI. Affects may tools, but here's an example using the Text tool, once triggered via the UI, once via a shortcut: https://avm-cdn.com/images/moi5_shortcut.mp4

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Hi summarity,

re:
> If a tool is triggered via shortcut, some but not all of the parameters are reset to
> default values, which is different from triggering it in the UI.

I should be able to fix that but you can solve it now if you put in "text" with all lowercase letters as the command name for the shortcut key.

Basically what happens right now is the UI says to run the "text" command, while the shortcut key says to run the "Text" command. They do both end up running the same actual command but the different upper/lower cases makes them have different storage for default values.

Thanks,
- Michael

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Dear Michael,

I'm loving v5 beta. Having groups for example makes MoI3d superb to work with and is the answer I've been hoping for for years, finally knowing that there is an alternative to both SketchUp as well as Rhino. Full marks to that!

However, and I don't know if this is planned and I apologise if this isn't the correct place to raise this topic, but something I'd like to see in v5 of Moi3d is better window management.

Right now and in order to have several windows open at the same time results in many floating windows.

Would it not be better to have a tab-based system where there is one main window, but different models on different windows in tabs for easier desktop management?

For those who don't mind multiple windows- for eg multiple monitor setups- there could be the option for both? Or that tabs could simply be 'pulled out' like is possible in most major browsers and window management in Apple's Finder. Same I believe in Windows.

Keep up the great work!

Tom

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Hi Tom, managing multiple top level windows is really a job that should be handled by the operating system rather than by each individual app.

For example on Windows the operating system does things like having separate entries in the taskbar when there is a small number of top level windows for the same app, and collapsing that to one entry in the taskbar when there are more.


> Would it not be better to have a tab-based system where there is one main window, but
> different models on different windows in tabs for easier desktop management?

Unfortunately the infrastructure on Mac to do this requires all the "document tabs" and the single main window to all be running inside of a single process.

The problem with that is if there is a crash it will take out everything instead of keeping the crash contained to just one window.

Currently on Mac each MOI window is in its own separate process so you get a big boost in stability where a crash in one window does not interfere with any other windows. Hopefully at some point Apple will make the operating system handle multiple app windows in separate processes better than it does currently.

- Michael

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I don't know the Mac system but on Windows you can start several sessions in the same time! ;)

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"I don't know the Mac system but on Windows you can start several sessions in the same time! ;)"

Yes, it's the same for the Mac version. I get all these lightbulb logos sitting in the dock! lol!

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"The problem with that is if there is a crash it will take out everything instead of keeping the crash contained to just one window."

Fair point.

"Currently on Mac each MOI window is in its own separate process so you get a big boost in stability where a crash in one window does not interfere with any other windows. Hopefully at some point Apple will make the operating system handle multiple app windows in separate processes better than it does currently."

Apple have a reputation (as you're most probably aware ;) ) of doing everything their way. I'd use Linux if I could but many of the apps I prefer to use only work on Mac or Windows and although I've tried my hardest to try to with (to Windows) there is always something that will wind me up about Microsoft. TBH, they're all as bad as each other- in their 'own special way'! lol.

I'll keep working as is. It's a miracle the MoI exists at all. I mean that in a very sincere way as I love this software, and that it doesn't have the dreaded subscription model that so many others have now adopted.

- Tom

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Hey Michael! How’s the official V5 coming along? Think we’ll finally get it this fall?

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Hi Marco,

re:
> Hey Michael! How’s the official V5 coming along?

It's coming along well, although slowly.


> Think we’ll finally get it this fall?

I hope so!

- Michael

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I f there is a separate thread for V5 feedback, let me know.

I am working with groups in v5 April.

A few things I found:

- Selecting an item in a group - best done from the Objects list, or click twice on the object - once to select the group an then another to select the object in the group. I can live with that but would rather just select the object in the group. If I want to select the whole group, then I can do that form the object list.

- Transform-Mirror. If I select an object in the group, and mirror it, the mirrored copy is created outside the group. I would expect it to remain in the group so that I don't have to move it back into the group. This one I find quite annoying.

- You can create two groups with the same name (copy/paste). That seems wrong to me - perhaps the 2nd group should have the "-copy" appended. If you do have two groups, and try to move an object from one to the other, it's not clear where it will end up.

- Within a group, select an object. Turn off visibilty for all other objects in the group. Export the selected object (in my case to STL). When the export completes, all object in the group become both visible and selected.

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Hi Jeff, thanks for the feedback, putting it on this thread is fine.

The behavior of groups in MOI is modeled after 2D vector drawing programs like Adobe Illustrator, Affinity Designer, etc... because they have had groups for a long time and there is a lot of consistency for how they behave.

So usually to answer group behavior questions I check several 2D illustration programs and if they all agree that I try to do that as well.

Also I should mention that although groups are the first kind of hierarchical structures in MOI I expect to add others in the future like probably "folders" which will be able to have different behavior than groups.


> - Selecting an item in a group - best done from the Objects list, or click twice
> on the object - once to select the group an then another to select the object in
> the group. I can live with that but would rather just select the object in the
> group. If I want to select the whole group, then I can do that form the object list.

Well it's kind of the #1 purpose of groups that they make a set of objects all select and transform as one unit.

That's very uniform behavior in all 2D vector drawing apps that I have seen.

Note that in addition to additional clicks stepping into the hierarchy you can also do a Ctrl+click.

When you hold down Ctrl and click on an unselected object that is inside of a group that object will get individually selected with that single click no matter how many nested levels.


> Transform-Mirror. If I select an object in the group, and mirror it, the mirrored
> copy is created outside the group. I would expect it to remain in the group so
> that I don't have to move it back into the group. This one I find quite annoying.

At first I thought you meant mirroring a selected group should make a result with both pieces inside of the same group. But you mean when there is a child of the group selected?

I'll have to test that in some other programs.


> - You can create two groups with the same name (copy/paste).

I just tested this with Affinity Designer, Inkscape, and Microsoft Word, all of them have the same behavior, no change in names after copy/paste.

If trying to do that it seems like you could get a lot of "copy of copy of copy of" pretty quickly in the names.


> Within a group, select an object. Turn off visibilty for all other objects in the
> group. Export the selected object (in my case to STL). When the export
> completes, all object in the group become both visible and selected.

This is a bug from the export process being done before groups existed so it was ok back then to only save and restore hidden and selection properties on the top level objects. I've almost got it fixed up.

Thanks, - Michael

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Michael,

I'm getting better at using groups effectively.

I am still making foolish mistakes such as trying to copy one object in the group and end up copying the entire group.

But one error that sometimes occurs is a bit more annoying.

When working on one object in the group I often use the boolean tools to make changes to the object and when I do it right they work fine.

What isn't so good is when I manage to select the group by mistake and then the program ends up working hard to apply the boolean operation to all of the objects in the group.

I realize they are my mistakes but what if you could somehow analyze what I just told the program to do and ask if I actually want to do what I just tried to do, such as asking me if I really want to union the 37 objects that are selected.

Not sure exactly what might help but Just a thought.

Thanks.

Frederick

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Hi Michael,

I have been giving some thought as to why the Group feature is not proving to be as intuitive for me as everything else in MoI is.

I think it is because I see Groups as an organization feature, rather than an operational feature.

That is to say, I rarely want to operate on the Group itself but most always on objects in the group.

I know I can control-click on an object in the group and it selects just the object but I think that change is the source of my problems.

Perhaps you could have an option to "invert" that behavior.

With the "inversion" option active, control-clicking an object in the group would select the group, while "normal" clicking would be as it was prior to groups, it would just select the object clicked on.

I think having the option would solve most every problem I have had with groups.

Another thought.

Thanks.

Frederick

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Hi Frederick,

re:
> With the "inversion" option active, control-clicking an object in the group
> would select the group, while "normal" clicking would be as it was prior to
> groups, it would just select the object clicked on.

Are there any examples of other programs that have this behavior with groups?

- Michael

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Message 11970.40 was deleted

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Message 11970.41 was deleted

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Hi danperk, it's cool to see the cross hatching getting used!

> Has the copy Ai and Copy PDF to clipboard changed since version 4?

Not much.

What happens if you open the AI file made by Save As, then inside Illustrator select all and copy/paste into a new page do you see the same kind of layer mutation?

It seems to be something that Illustrator does when pasting.

Looks like there is a setting in Illustrator that you need to change so it won't merge all the layers when pasting:

https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/18438/how-to-preserve-layer-settings-when-copying-between-files

On the Layers panel, there is a little arrow in the upper right corner, click on it and pick the menu item "Paste Remembers Layers".

- Michael

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Thanks Michael!

I deleted my post when I remembered the 'Paste remembers layers' setting. That was late last night, but you were on it!


Thanks for for best and fastest support in software development!

Image Attachments:
Ai_Rem.png 

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