Full Version: Nvil or Blender

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We need a Groboto3D/MeshFusion addon for Blender or MOI3D.

Personally (and no offense intended) I have a great hate-on for MOI3D scripts when something like addons/plugins would be better.

Installing many scripts really becomes unmanageable remembering what script does what and navigating through a screen listing mess of scripts.

Also importing of .skp files would be nice. I've heard why they are not, yet Rhino3D, FormZ and other similar MOI competitors has this ability.

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Hi KENMO,

re:
> Also importing of .skp files would be nice. I've heard why they are not, yet Rhino3D, FormZ and
> other similar MOI competitors has this ability.

Rhino and FormZ are a mixed environment where you can have both NURBS objects or polygon mesh objects.

However, there are many aspects where that leads to confusion because those different object types don't interact well with each other.

MOI is only focused on NURBS objects, that's why it does not attempt to load .skp files. Skp files contain polygon mesh data only.

If you need to edit polygon mesh data, you are better off doing that in a polygon mesh editing program. MOI isn't the right tool for working on mesh data.

- Michael

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I'm still not sure what Groboto purpose was.

Please correct me, but it looks like a set of primitives you can combine with weird blending options. Everything done is Groboto looks really ... groboto-ish.
The Modo version was an attempt to extend the primitives set by using SDS custom models. I suppose that using OpenSubdiv (or other sub-d method) allows more robust booleans intersection, but probably not as accurate as groboto 'simple' primitives was.

On the top of that managing how the blending or 'fake' fillet is computed (strips) is complicated to control. Maybe some of this limitations has been removed now, but in early version you could intersect a fillet area with an other boolean operation ... so basically you have to handle a complex bool operation trees + fillet as a whole, very cumbersome once you mix 4 or 5+ shapes.

Also preparing good primitives require a good understanding of sub-d modelling, and the end result is a triangulated poly soup that is worse than what MoI n-gones mesher produce.

Somehow the closest thing to Groboto is probably one of those SDF modeler. Results have also very distinctive look, but maybe not as much as Groboto. Been a grid voxel based tiny details are however very hard to create without using relative high resolution, building 'real' assets with it looks like a chore if you don't produce stylized art. MagicaCSG looks quite ahead in the field. I guess there was a Blender advanced implementation on the way, but I haven't much update about it lately.

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Groboto 3D included a few sets of it's own custom sub-d primitives.

Here's a screen capture of the primitives included with my install of Groboto3D.

It includes more primitives then MeshFusion ever had.

Image Attachments:
001.jpg  002.jpg  003.jpg  004.jpg 

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I could produce a model much quicker in Groboto3D then I could in Wings3D, Hexagon or Silo. And now I can say faster than Blender.

I would often take the model into 3DCoat to add some details via sculpting, uv map and texture.

I created my Mr Bug model in a very short time using Groboto3D about 10 years ago.

Image Attachments:
Mr Bug.jpg 

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Well I don't think they were using any sort of sub-d primitives at that time, I guess those are all 'math' primitives that are resolution free, a bit like a Nurbs sphere, or other revolved geo ... maybe it was Nurbs ? I guess Groboto was also handling the rigging right ? It's a really strange tool, not sure I personally could use it for anything tho.

It does reminds me something like Organica from impulse in the late 90's ... the metaballs era ... decompose any shape like a collection of primitives, it's a really particular exercise !

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I use my Groboto created models for assets in e-onsoftware's Vue or to paint over in Photoshop, Corel Painter, Art Rage or Rebelle.

In this 2D digital painting I posed Mr Bug in Groboto and then did a render with the outline in Groboto. I used the render as an under painting in ArtRage.

i did this in 2014.

Image Attachments:
ArtRage017-{Lonely Mr Bug}=KRM02.jpg 

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Wow - DAZ3D still offers Carrara 8.5 Pro which I forgot I purchased years ago and still have installed on my computer. Never really gave Carrara a chance as I found Hexagon to be a much better 3D modeler.

https://www.daz3d.com/carrara-8-5-pro?srsltid=AfmBOoqgQysVKj3vdiD-Qjku8wRNO2XcgkQ7MHC9S_T1uAsIhdzW96xt

Several years ago I became interested in Anim8or, but it seems the developer stopped working on it. It was also another FREE 3D modeling app.

https://www.anim8or.com/

With an online manual

https://www.anim8or.com/learn/manual/index.html

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An youtube channel with some tutorials on Anim8or.

https://www.youtube.com/@pocketenix3d

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Screen capture of an arch window I quickly modeled in Groboto3D several years ago.

I believe something similar could be quickly modeled in MOI3D.

However I believe Groboto3D does a better job when exporting to OBJ as most of the time they are perfect quads.

Image Attachments:
ArchWindow.jpg 

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In the post above it shows what primitives were used to create the arch window's frame.

In this post the primitives used to create the window glass.

Image Attachments:
ArchWindowGlass.jpg 

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Archwindow exported from Groboto as OBJ and imported into Blender 4.3. Perhaps a little too dense and needs to be decimated or retopo'd.

Image Attachments:
ArchWindow InBlender.jpg 

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One thing I do like in Modo is it's mesh cleanup function.

My Archwindow OBJ imported into Modo v17.1. Mesh cleanup finds a few issues and attempts to resolve them.

Image Attachments:
ArchWindowInModo17.jpg  ArchWindowInModo17.jpg 

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This time I reduced the quad count in Groboto3D's export to OBJ function and tweaked some of the seam options.

In Blender you can see the quad count is now more then half then previously.

Image Attachments:
ArchWindow InBlender.02jpg.jpg 

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Usually, when working with MoI, you want to get a mesh that accurately resembles the original file. So, if you design a sharp box, you get a box as output, not a soap stick.
And yes, building an arched window is done with just a few clicks. The only difference is that it's more of a 'destructive' approach, as the different boolean operations are not live.


Depending on the purpose, you might want to try two approaches. If it's 'just' a render mesh, n-gons driven by angle do a perfect job. I suggest using the .FBX format when dealing with n-gons to avoid reconstruction problems in most DCCs (.lwo is nice with Modo/Lightwave, though). Blender does surprisingly well using .obj, but it's an exception.


If you plan to add additional deformation or prepare a mesh for sculpting (remeshing), dicing the model evenly is the best choice, as you need accurate surface limits and can't rely on normals only.


They will both look the same in the viewport ...


But the evenly diced version can handle some advanced deformations.


MoI's mesher is simply the best, really. However, there is often a misunderstanding about what constitutes "good topology." Quad-only topology doesn't make much sense most of the time, especially if you are generating a render mesh. It's something you tend to stick to when doing pure poly-modeling or preparing a mesh for rig deformation (character work), as normals need to be re-evaluated on the fly in a surface
subdivision pipeline. On that matter, Groboto meshes will be a nightmare to work with anyway

Image Attachments:
Arch01.JPG  Arch02.JPG  Arch03.JPG  Arch04.JPG  Arch05.JPG 

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Thanks for the post. There is some valuable information in it.

The export MOI3D options :
- Angle
- Divide larger than
- Avoid smaller than
- Aspect ratio limit

always confused me. Is there any information on these perplexing options during export?

Thanks kindly

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Hi KENMO,

re:
> Is there any information on these perplexing options during export?

Yes, it's in the help file under "Meshing options":
https://moi3d.com/4.0/docs/moi_command_reference11.htm#meshdialog

- Michael

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Thanks kindly Michael. That helped a lot.

Cheers and Happy New Year...

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