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From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
Yep NVil now...on Stream has a nice price! :)
Normally 30-Day Low Now
54,99€ 27,49€ 27,49€
From: PaQ
Looks like Modo 17.1v1 - 26 November 2024 (what a fun naming convention) is supposed to get stability back, while keeping the perf boost vs 16x serie.
I haven't touch Modo for so long, the UI looks way more intimidating compared to 801 era ...
https://learn.foundry.com/modo/17.1v1/content/release_notes/17/modo_17.1v1_releasenotes.html
If it wasn't clear you can grab a copy here :
https://support.foundry.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019180479-Q100595-Download-links-for-previous-Modo-versions
And the license here :
https://campaigns.foundry.com/modo-eol-license
No need to have a Foundry account. (Thanks Greg Leuenberger from PixelFondue)
From: KENMO
MeshFusion is included with version 17.1 of Modo I installed and registered with their free 10 year license.
However I am finding the interface of Modo more confusing then Blender was to me when I first started using Blender 2.9.
And MeshFusion is not as friendly as Groboto3D's interface.
IMHO the best user interface of any software app is MOI3D.
In a day I felt very comfortable with it.
I love Blender but I have a big hate on for some of their add-ons like Hard Ops, Boxcutter, Fluent to name a few. Reason being they rely on memorizing short cuts.
Plasticity also relies heavily onshortcuts.
Tried Nvil and hated it. Terrible user interface. Rocket3F was better but did not like it.
MOI3D does not seem to rely on shortcuts and I've never had to use s single one.
I simply use too many apps (Photoshop, Adobe Lightroom, Topaz Studio, Corel Painter, Rebelle, ArtRage, Blender, 3D Coat, MOI3D, Daz Studio, e-onsoftware's Vue and sometimes Curvy3D or ZBrush Lite) to retain shortcuts.
I also maintain at home two Unraid NAS, an Ubtuntu samba server as well as two Windows computers (10 & 11).
I also plan on creating a pfsense firewall.
My issues with MOI were never with the app. It was other issues which continue to annoy me.
I still have a love for Hexagon3D but it is very unstable on my Windows 10 and 11 computers.
I would still being using Silo3D if Nevercentre had not stopped developing it for a while. However they recently started offering updates to a newer version but I thought the cost was a little too much.
Wings 3Dis fun and free, but has limited capabilities compared to Hexagon or Silo3D.
One big thing I dislike about Blender (besides shortcuts) and each install of a newer release requires you re-install your add-ons. Unlike Photoshop which seldom requires an re-install of a plugin.
From: PaQ
That's the real beauty of MoI. You can operate it entirely with a single mouse button without ever touching the keyboard, or you can go all-in with shortcuts. The fact that shortcuts can also run scripts makes it incredibly powerful.
As for Modo, I feel that at some point, they started adding features to the UI mainly to satisfy their existing customer base (and perhaps the shoe industry) without much thought for potential new users.
I do agree with you KENMO, heavily based addons software like Blender are always a nightmare to keep up to date, new release break things, Blender dev's dont really care (and they shouldn't imho). It was already the case with 3dsmax, even if usually there was a 2y cycles before going full break.
That said in the little poly modelling landscape, I still think Blender is the wise choice if you start from scartch. Not the easiest to learn, but on the long run it will pay off. There is so much content for it now too.
From: KENMO
Been playing a bit with Modo ver 17.1, Wow, what a piece of crap. Very slow on my Ryzen 3700 8 core / 16 thread with 32 gbs of memory. Prone to a few crashes.
And to think Foundry was selling this app for $1200.00. Silo is just over $100, Blender and Hexagon are free and MOI is a steal at the price it is currently selling at.
MeshFusion is a complete disappointment to me. I find it very confusing as I was expecting something more like is sibling, Groboto3D.
Perhaps the earlier versions of Modo are more stable and have better performance? Anyone know what is the best version of Modo?
Playing around in Modo 17.1 gave me a greater appreciation for 3D Coat, MOI and Blender.
Cheers & Happy New Year everyone...
Kenmo
From: PaQ
Nope, it has always been like that. Version 101 (102?) was essentially a pre-alpha sold 300$. Things got a little better around 701-801, but to me, it was still something I’d describe as a beta release.
I think it’s the only app I know of that could crash just from selecting things—especially on "old" AMD graphics cards.
That said, I was also using 3ds Max and trialing Hexagon at the time (around version 801), and neither was particularly great either. I remember testing an early version of NPower NURBS for Max (based on the same library used in MoI ?), and it was impossible to complete even a single basic tutorial. I suppose we were more resilient back in the days since we didn’t know any better anyway.
As for the price, they indeed went nuts ... even free now I won't touch it. The fact I can't even upscale the UI (no options in the app and windows fractional = blur interface) doesn't help.
I did lost a good amount of direct modelling tools/function switching to Houdini, but that last version of Modo looks very alien to me now ... I supposed we get used to anything after few years.
And I don't think MeshFusion has much to do with Groboto. I know Darrel Anderson was doing very "groboto stuff" with it, but it's indeed way more complex to use ... that freaking strip management is insane, I would rather to use something like SoftBoolean in Houdini, or MoI ofc.
https://community.foundry.com/profile/darrelanderson
From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
For the fun here my French Groboto manual! Now collector! :)
https://manuelgrobotovf.weebly.com
From: KENMO
I purchased Groboto 3.3 on the promise that Darrel Anderson was working on ver 4. I realize he ended up with a serious illness in cancer and that delayed it.
However after regaining his health he concentrated all efforts on MeshFusion.
Now that Modo has died, I wonder if Braid Arts will pickup on Groboto3D?
And for the record, I truly believe Nvil is pure trash and would not recommend as long as Blender is free or Silo3D is still being developed.
Wings3D is also still being supported and has a very friendly and quite helpful user base.
The simplicity of Wings3D and Silo3D' user interface is awesome, as is MOI3D.
From: KENMO
PS: I see Nvil is being offered on Steam for $35 (Canadian dollars). That is damn cheap and perhaps worth a try at that price. But the UI when I last tried it about 7 years ago was awful. Perhaps it is better now.
From: KENMO
We need a Groboto3D/MeshFusion addon for Blender or MOI3D.
Personally (and no offense intended) I have a great hate-on for MOI3D scripts when something like addons/plugins would be better.
Installing many scripts really becomes unmanageable remembering what script does what and navigating through a screen listing mess of scripts.
Also importing of .skp files would be nice. I've heard why they are not, yet Rhino3D, FormZ and other similar MOI competitors has this ability.
From: Michael Gibson
Hi KENMO,
re:
> Also importing of .skp files would be nice. I've heard why they are not, yet Rhino3D, FormZ and
> other similar MOI competitors has this ability.
Rhino and FormZ are a mixed environment where you can have both NURBS objects or polygon mesh objects.
However, there are many aspects where that leads to confusion because those different object types don't interact well with each other.
MOI is only focused on NURBS objects, that's why it does not attempt to load .skp files. Skp files contain polygon mesh data only.
If you need to edit polygon mesh data, you are better off doing that in a polygon mesh editing program. MOI isn't the right tool for working on mesh data.
- Michael
From: PaQ
I'm still not sure what Groboto purpose was.
Please correct me, but it looks like a set of primitives you can combine with weird blending options. Everything done is Groboto looks really ... groboto-ish.
The Modo version was an attempt to extend the primitives set by using SDS custom models. I suppose that using OpenSubdiv (or other sub-d method) allows more robust booleans intersection, but probably not as accurate as groboto 'simple' primitives was.
On the top of that managing how the blending or 'fake' fillet is computed (strips) is complicated to control. Maybe some of this limitations has been removed now, but in early version you could intersect a fillet area with an other boolean operation ... so basically you have to handle a complex bool operation trees + fillet as a whole, very cumbersome once you mix 4 or 5+ shapes.
Also preparing good primitives require a good understanding of sub-d modelling, and the end result is a triangulated poly soup that is worse than what MoI n-gones mesher produce.
Somehow the closest thing to Groboto is probably one of those SDF modeler. Results have also very distinctive look, but maybe not as much as Groboto. Been a grid voxel based tiny details are however very hard to create without using relative high resolution, building 'real' assets with it looks like a chore if you don't produce stylized art. MagicaCSG looks quite ahead in the field. I guess there was a Blender advanced implementation on the way, but I haven't much update about it lately.
From: KENMO
Groboto 3D included a few sets of it's own custom sub-d primitives.
Here's a screen capture of the primitives included with my install of Groboto3D.
It includes more primitives then MeshFusion ever had.
Image Attachments:
001.jpg
002.jpg
003.jpg
004.jpg
From: KENMO
I could produce a model much quicker in Groboto3D then I could in Wings3D, Hexagon or Silo. And now I can say faster than Blender.
I would often take the model into 3DCoat to add some details via sculpting, uv map and texture.
I created my Mr Bug model in a very short time using Groboto3D about 10 years ago.
Image Attachments:
Mr Bug.jpg
From: PaQ
Well I don't think they were using any sort of sub-d primitives at that time, I guess those are all 'math' primitives that are resolution free, a bit like a Nurbs sphere, or other revolved geo ... maybe it was Nurbs ? I guess Groboto was also handling the rigging right ? It's a really strange tool, not sure I personally could use it for anything tho.
It does reminds me something like Organica from impulse in the late 90's ... the metaballs era ... decompose any shape like a collection of primitives, it's a really particular exercise !
From: KENMO
I use my Groboto created models for assets in e-onsoftware's Vue or to paint over in Photoshop, Corel Painter, Art Rage or Rebelle.
In this 2D digital painting I posed Mr Bug in Groboto and then did a render with the outline in Groboto. I used the render as an under painting in ArtRage.
i did this in 2014.
Image Attachments:
ArtRage017-{Lonely Mr Bug}=KRM02.jpg
From: KENMO
Wow - DAZ3D still offers Carrara 8.5 Pro which I forgot I purchased years ago and still have installed on my computer. Never really gave Carrara a chance as I found Hexagon to be a much better 3D modeler.
https://www.daz3d.com/carrara-8-5-pro?srsltid=AfmBOoqgQysVKj3vdiD-Qjku8wRNO2XcgkQ7MHC9S_T1uAsIhdzW96xt
Several years ago I became interested in Anim8or, but it seems the developer stopped working on it. It was also another FREE 3D modeling app.
https://www.anim8or.com/
With an online manual
https://www.anim8or.com/learn/manual/index.html
From: KENMO
An youtube channel with some tutorials on Anim8or.
https://www.youtube.com/@pocketenix3d
From: KENMO
Screen capture of an arch window I quickly modeled in Groboto3D several years ago.
I believe something similar could be quickly modeled in MOI3D.
However I believe Groboto3D does a better job when exporting to OBJ as most of the time they are perfect quads.
Image Attachments:
ArchWindow.jpg
From: KENMO
In the post above it shows what primitives were used to create the arch window's frame.
In this post the primitives used to create the window glass.
Image Attachments:
ArchWindowGlass.jpg
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