Full Version: V5 beta Apr-13-2023 available now

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Thanks for the explanation, Michael.

Martin.

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I've tried launching installer for this beta under WINE, but for some reason it fails - I get a blank, black window. For previous version it worked (but on the other hand I've updated the system since then.... at least I've tried running it in the same wine env).

edit: after some fiddling and switching to Wine 8 I was able to start the installer successfully. I've got the same problem with MoI4 installer, which previously worked correctly - so it's not MoI thing, but rather my configuration, WINE / Linux thing. On the positive note - after installing it seems to work beautifully , so I should be able to do some minor cad work when only my laptop is available.

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Hello Michael,Do you already have a date for an approximate release of the update?

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Hi blackboard,

re:
> Hello Michael,Do you already have a date for an approximate release of the update?

Sorry no not yet.

- Michael

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I really want to create file new icons for commands in the interface, the most and naturally arising from this SVG icons.
The question arises, is it possible to use moi3d svg as icons

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I believe that you must converter them in PNG images...

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Hi blackboard, no the moi3d interface is not able to use .svg for icons directly, it is designed to use PNG images for icons.

You will need to convert your .svg into a 64x64 pixel PNG image and use the PNG.

- Michael

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Hello Michael!

How's it going? Hope everything's alright.

Have you some news about the V5 development?

Compared to V4 (that was a major rewrite at time) what are the advantages of this new upcoming V5?
And, last but not least, are there any current advantages to using the V5 beta compared to the official V4?
(I mean modelling speed, stability, better performance with Apple Silicon, etc...)

Thanks and have a good day.

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Hi Marco, the biggest new things for v5 are - improved fillets using the ACIS library, Groups, SVG format, UI theme editor with dark mode, and native arm64 build for Apple Silicon.

re:
> And, last but not least, are there any current advantages to using the V5 beta compared to the official V4?
> (I mean modelling speed, stability, better performance with Apple Silicon, etc...)

Well, the current v5 beta has all the above stuff in it which isn't in v4.

There is a collection of all the v5 beta release notes here:
https://moi3d.com/wiki/V5Beta

- Michael

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Thanks Michael!
Very interesting the specific build for Apple Silicon. So, in the V5 build, are you directly calling Metal APIs?

I'm asking you about Apple Silicon because, for example, I would like to know if now I can set the viewport display angle to 5 instead of the standard 10, without getting slowdowns, thanks to Metal API and M1/M2 GPUs.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

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Hi Marco,

re:
> Very interesting the specific build for Apple Silicon. So, in the V5 build, are you directly calling Metal APIs?

Using Metal APIs is a separate thing from arm64/Apple Silicon. But Moi v5 will also support rendering using the Metal API, it should be fully functional with the next v5 beta release.


> I would like to know if now I can set the viewport display angle to 5 instead of the standard 10,
> without getting slowdowns, thanks to Metal API and M1/M2 GPUs.

In general I've found that the Metal API is somewhat slower than OpenGL so I don't expect that you would see any improvement in that area.

Despite its name and marketing Metal is a more "managed" display pipeline, there isn't any way set up to use the CPU and GPU in parallel for constructing a single frame in Metal unlike OpenGL. Basically it lacks any mechanism for dynamic vertex buffers.

- Michael

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Thanks for these info :)

But...this sounds me a bit strange.
As far as I know, OpenGL hasn't been supported (natively) on Apple computers, for years now.
All the GOU development has shifted to Apple Silicon and Metal API.
How is it possible that Metal can't deliver as much, if not more, as power compared to the OLD OpenGL?

This sounds really strange...

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Hi Marco,

re:
> As far as I know, OpenGL hasn't been supported (natively) on Apple computers, for years now.

That's incorrect. OpenGL.framework is implemented in native arm64 code on all Apple Silicon operating systems so far at least.


> How is it possible that Metal can't deliver as much, if not more, as power
> compared to the OLD OpenGL?

It's because in kind of typical Apple fashion they've prioritized API "elegance" over functionality.

The way the Metal API is designed, you assemble a full list of instructions and then submit that entire instruction set to the GPU which then executes it on the GPU.

To get CPU/GPU parallel processing they advocate using a triple buffering mechanism which works fine for a game that is constantly animating in a render loop but MoI is rather different than a game. Instead of trying to have a constant FPS on a preplanned scene MoI is more focused on generating just the current frame using both the CPU and GPU in parallel. Metal is not able to use both CPU and GPU in parallel within the scope of a single frame unlike OpenGL or Direct3D using dynamic vertex buffers.

Basically there is a thing in OpenGL and Direct3D called "dynamic vertex buffers" which allows data to be streamed from the CPU to the GPU while the current frame is being generated. Metal does not have this function.

- Michael

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Thanks for this detailed explanation :)
OK. Got it.
Have a nice day.

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Hello Michael.

Where I can read something about the new (or improved) "Groups" functionality of the V5 beta?

Thanks :)

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Hi Marco,

re:
> Where I can read something about the new (or improved) "Groups" functionality of the V5 beta?

There is some information in the v5 beta release notes which are gathered here:
https://moi3d.com/wiki/V5Beta

- Michael

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Hello Michael,how development going?We can see full v5 version of moi in 2023?

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Hi blackboard,

> Hello Michael,how development going?

It's been slow recently, I've been working on some tricky bugs.


> We can see full v5 version of moi in 2023?

I hope so but I don't know for sure.

- Michael

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Ok,thanks for answer we will wait

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Hi Michael,

Since my Trial v4 version has expired for some time, the question is when can we expect a 5 full version and at what price.
I don't want to buy the 4 version first to try the updates because I only use Moi for my hobby and for fun (I'm retired).

Greetings from Hamburg
Pieter

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