HI Michael, RDK, Thanks for the reply, Artcam hmmmmm maybe if i morgage the house and sell the kids lol. I know mastercad/cam has a puffing tool that will work in detail like that but its even more expensive than art cam. I guess right now its not that important. But what if i drew some lines to repersent hair and extruded as a minus and just use a vbit to carve them, I havent done any files as yet to try plus im still finishing my cnc machine. I have a whole seller who is waiting to see some files before I start on any finished product so i better get some done hey. Thanks again. Graham